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Should capital punishment be legal?
'Suck it up and get over it' are some of the most insensitive words I have ever heard. Even more surprised I heard it from someone who apparently got abused for 4 years.
Allow me to illustrate a scenario that's fictional, but should help prove my point.
Imagine someone is beating you up (and let's say savagely to put emphasis on it) for no real reason; that is to say, you did nothing to deserve it and you were unable to fight back. Let us say for example that someone walks by and you cry out for help. Do you suppose it would be appropriate for them to turn around and say, 'suck it up, get over it and deal with it'?
I feel such a response would be deemed inhuman.
And while we are on the self-pity train at the moment, I was beaten by my parents from the age of 3-4 until the age of around 13-14. I'm one of the lucky ones who can say that as a family, we've worked through some major problems. But I sure as hell wouldn't be in such a fortunate position if people I considered as friends turned around and said 'screw you, man up and deal with it'.
When someone is raped or is affected by a murder, if you are even remotely human, you do not say the words, 'suck it up and deal with it'.
You are even more woefully ignorant if you don't think rape can happen repeatedly. I'll point to the example of the Fritzl case. But it was only 24 years of her life, right? She can just suck it up and get over it, I'm sure.
Having been 'on the edge of the abyss' does not suddenly give you to right to write off other people's pains. A person feels their own pain most vividly and they really don't need some unthinking fool to add to that, thank you very much.
Allow me to illustrate a scenario that's fictional, but should help prove my point.
Imagine someone is beating you up (and let's say savagely to put emphasis on it) for no real reason; that is to say, you did nothing to deserve it and you were unable to fight back. Let us say for example that someone walks by and you cry out for help. Do you suppose it would be appropriate for them to turn around and say, 'suck it up, get over it and deal with it'?
I feel such a response would be deemed inhuman.
And while we are on the self-pity train at the moment, I was beaten by my parents from the age of 3-4 until the age of around 13-14. I'm one of the lucky ones who can say that as a family, we've worked through some major problems. But I sure as hell wouldn't be in such a fortunate position if people I considered as friends turned around and said 'screw you, man up and deal with it'.
When someone is raped or is affected by a murder, if you are even remotely human, you do not say the words, 'suck it up and deal with it'.
You are even more woefully ignorant if you don't think rape can happen repeatedly. I'll point to the example of the Fritzl case. But it was only 24 years of her life, right? She can just suck it up and get over it, I'm sure.
Having been 'on the edge of the abyss' does not suddenly give you to right to write off other people's pains. A person feels their own pain most vividly and they really don't need some unthinking fool to add to that, thank you very much.
DillButt64 wrote:
phey logic "oh i made a stupid statement and people are calling me out on it, better be racist towards americans! you know to cover my tracks"
dill/moon/throat logic: he made a post, so his next one can't be a troll one. he's always so serious and against us, we have to bash him, whatever the cost, whatever the ***uption.
regardless, death sentence may be extremist penalty. however, no society is really better with or without it. the only real problem is who takes that decision and for what reason.
btw, comparing rape to murder is childish.
about being human: well, a joke. if you want to say civilized, i'd accept, since it defines the way you want to live by, what ideals.
killing is an innately human behavior. has been done throughout the ages by humans to it's own. species related to us do it. you can say killing is not civilized behavior, you can't say it isn't human. base it on your sociological dynamics and development goals, not your ideology of a human race that doesn't exist.
Pheyniex wrote:
dill/moon/throat logic: he made a post, so his next one can't be a troll one. he's always so serious and against us, we have to bash him, whatever the cost, whatever the ***uption.
The bashing seems to work :P
Quoted:
btw, comparing rape to murder is childish.
Its not childish, its stupid :P
Rape sucks n stuff, but you can recover from it. Death is so permanent.
Quoted:
about being human: well, a joke. if you want to say civilized, i'd accept, since it defines the way you want to live by, what ideals.
killing is an innately human behavior. has been done throughout the ages by humans to it's own. species related to us do it. you can say killing is not civilized behavior, you can't say it isn't human. base it on your sociological dynamics and development goals, not your ideology of a human race that doesn't exist.
killing is an innately human behavior. has been done throughout the ages by humans to it's own. species related to us do it. you can say killing is not civilized behavior, you can't say it isn't human. base it on your sociological dynamics and development goals, not your ideology of a human race that doesn't exist.
This is actually true (big argument regarding my idea incoming)
A person will always do what is best for himself, since humans are born to survive. A man can say that there are also people out there that help a lot of other people without asking anything in return, but they just do that because they were trained to do so. They had to be like that or else they would be punished (in a non-extreme way). People act because they want to get as little punishment as possible.
Someone that commits a crime is just doing what they believe allows them to survive in a better state (though this is most of the time not true). Which is also a reason why death penalty is bad, since the guy just did what he thought was right. A sane man taking the life of someone that was stupid enough to commit a crime is hurting society more than it is helping society.
The man broke the rules made by those who lead the country. Let's compare a country with a household. The government is the housekeeper and the civilians are the renters. A renter that wishes to live within a certain household has to pay money each month (tax) and also must live by the rules in order to stay in the house hold. The rules that are within the house are so that the people within the house could live happy next to eachother without any disturbance. When people start breaking the rules, they will be kicked out of the house. Why wont we do the same on a country scale?
Why do we punish the "renters" like the "housekeeper" owns him? Why don't we just cast them out of society? It is the most fair thing in the world to do. They wish to break the rules of society? Fine. But then you are also not welcome anymore in our society.
Change is gooooood
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You're being very VERY general there, Banana. Literally all your points are redundant...
A person will always do what is best for himself, since humans are born to survive. A man can say that there are also people out there that help a lot of other people without asking anything in return, but they just do that because they were trained to do so. They had to be like that or else they would be punished (in a non-extreme way). People act because they want to get as little punishment as possible.
A counter-example would just be a martyr or someone who gave their life up for someone else. Since the first sentence which serves as a basis for the rest of the paragraph has just been disproved, the rest of the paragraph is meaningless.
Someone that commits a crime is just doing what they believe allows them to survive in a better state (though this is most of the time not true). Which is also a reason why death penalty is bad, since the guy just did what he thought was right. A sane man taking the life of someone that was stupid enough to commit a crime is hurting society more than it is helping society.
I hardly think that the single motivation of crime is just for a better self-state of affairs. In addition, there are things which are classified as 'crimes' which most people are unaware are even considered crimes by states.
The man broke the rules made by those who lead the country. Let's compare a country with a household. The government is the housekeeper and the civilians are the renters. A renter that wishes to live within a certain household has to pay money each month (tax) and also must live by the rules in order to stay in the house hold. The rules that are within the house are so that the people within the house could live happy next to eachother without any disturbance. When people start breaking the rules, they will be kicked out of the house. Why wont we do the same on a country scale?
Why do we punish the "renters" like the "housekeeper" owns him? Why don't we just cast them out of society? It is the most fair thing in the world to do. They wish to break the rules of society? Fine. But then you are also not welcome anymore in our society.
Also a very one-sided view. For example, what if the rules and laws of society were discriminatory to begin with (See Martin Luther King)? Then should all coloured people leave, because that is most certainly what you just implied? What if they were deliberately abusive? What if the landlord is deliberately overtaxing you, particularly over what you can afford and over what the worth of your stay is? Do you still think it reasonable to be forced to depart on that basis?
I don't really get the reason behind why you formulated this (very broken) analogy either. Exactly what relevance does it hold to the question at hand?
Meiyjhe wrote:
A person will always do what is best for himself, since humans are born to survive. A man can say that there are also people out there that help a lot of other people without asking anything in return, but they just do that because they were trained to do so. They had to be like that or else they would be punished (in a non-extreme way). People act because they want to get as little punishment as possible.
A counter-example would just be a martyr or someone who gave their life up for someone else. Since the first sentence which serves as a basis for the rest of the paragraph has just been disproved, the rest of the paragraph is meaningless.
Meiyjhe wrote:
Someone that commits a crime is just doing what they believe allows them to survive in a better state (though this is most of the time not true). Which is also a reason why death penalty is bad, since the guy just did what he thought was right. A sane man taking the life of someone that was stupid enough to commit a crime is hurting society more than it is helping society.
I hardly think that the single motivation of crime is just for a better self-state of affairs. In addition, there are things which are classified as 'crimes' which most people are unaware are even considered crimes by states.
Meiyjhe wrote:
The man broke the rules made by those who lead the country. Let's compare a country with a household. The government is the housekeeper and the civilians are the renters. A renter that wishes to live within a certain household has to pay money each month (tax) and also must live by the rules in order to stay in the house hold. The rules that are within the house are so that the people within the house could live happy next to eachother without any disturbance. When people start breaking the rules, they will be kicked out of the house. Why wont we do the same on a country scale?
Why do we punish the "renters" like the "housekeeper" owns him? Why don't we just cast them out of society? It is the most fair thing in the world to do. They wish to break the rules of society? Fine. But then you are also not welcome anymore in our society.
Also a very one-sided view. For example, what if the rules and laws of society were discriminatory to begin with (See Martin Luther King)? Then should all coloured people leave, because that is most certainly what you just implied? What if they were deliberately abusive? What if the landlord is deliberately overtaxing you, particularly over what you can afford and over what the worth of your stay is? Do you still think it reasonable to be forced to depart on that basis?
I don't really get the reason behind why you formulated this (very broken) analogy either. Exactly what relevance does it hold to the question at hand?
For utter hilarity, click >>here<<!
sirell wrote:
You're being very VERY general there, Banana. Literally all your points are redundant...
A counter-example would just be a martyr or someone who gave their life up for someone else. Since the first sentence which serves as a basis for the rest of the paragraph has just been disproved, the rest of the paragraph is meaningless.
I hardly think that the single motivation of crime is just for a better self-state of affairs. In addition, there are things which are classified as 'crimes' which most people are unaware are even considered crimes by states.
Also a very one-sided view. For example, what if the rules and laws of society were discriminatory to begin with (See Martin Luther King)? Then should all coloured people leave, because that is most certainly what you just implied? What if they were deliberately abusive? What if the landlord is deliberately overtaxing you, particularly over what you can afford and over what the worth of your stay is? Do you still think it reasonable to be forced to depart on that basis?
I don't really get the reason behind why you formulated this (very broken) analogy either. Exactly what relevance does it hold to the question at hand?
Yeah, I wasn't thinking very logically, I am sorry.
Maybe the metaphor wasn't that good either. I still believe that throwing people out of civiisation when they did a heavy crime would be the best solution, but the way I explained it was bad indeed :P
Change is gooooood
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The problem with throwing people out of civilisation is that they can have a horrible way of coming back to bite you in the ***.
Also, how would you propose about doing this? You are quite literally suggesting that we kick a criminal out from their resident country into... another country? I don't quite get how this would work.
Also, how would you propose about doing this? You are quite literally suggesting that we kick a criminal out from their resident country into... another country? I don't quite get how this would work.
sirell wrote:
The problem with throwing people out of civilisation is that they can have a horrible way of coming back to bite you in the ***.
Also, how would you propose about doing this? You are quite literally suggesting that we kick a criminal out from their resident country into... another country? I don't quite get how this would work.
Kicking them in to an other country wouldn't be a smart idea indeed, unless the laws are so different, that the illegal things he did in one country, would be legal in another country. Since that is most of the times not the case, I was more thinking of a Dark Knight Rises scenario, where we throw them in a hole or an island scenario, where we just throw them on abandoned islands and oilrigs.
Something like that :P
Change is gooooood
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rehabilitation is usually a good way to treat criminals. even better is not making them criminals.
Rape sucks n stuff, but you can recover from it. Death is so permanent.
unfortunately you can't prove to me that being alive is better than being dead.
i can also tell you have never been raped. some people don't recover, the majority never forgets. it will always impact the behavior of the victim.
Meiyjhe wrote:
Rape sucks n stuff, but you can recover from it. Death is so permanent.
unfortunately you can't prove to me that being alive is better than being dead.
i can also tell you have never been raped. some people don't recover, the majority never forgets. it will always impact the behavior of the victim.
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There's more than a year of my life I'll never get back.
In the wrong circumstances rape can literally happen as constantly as any other form of physical abuse. And you are at as little power to stop it as you are to stop someone from hitting you, perhaps less because you wonder at first if he did it to you because you did something wrong...and gradually it just becomes clear that you're nothing more than a body to him. That you have no worth and this isn't going to stop. But you can't leave...you rely on this person for money and a place to live.
I nearly killed myself that year...more than once.
Do YOU know what it's like? just waiting for him to decide to take what he wants from you? Knowing it'll hurt and that you'll probably cry and that that'll just make it worse?
So, no...I am not going to just "get over it", thanks.
EDIT: Unfortunately I'm leaving for a week long trip in less than an hour...so don't expect me to respond to however you respond to this.