11/19/0 Renekton

[quote=Andrax1]@skidmark The premise of your statement is that it isn't viable to not follow what everyone else is doing. What would be the point of the "theory crafting" thread if you can't even consider not following what everyone else is doing? Just because everyone thought the world was flat doesn't mean it was. @Moon I didn't say he wasn't a tanky bruiser, I was merely pointing out that you do not build full tank on Renekton not that you DONT build tank items on Renekton. I commonly take sunfire randuin's and spirt visage. 50% is a huge margin especially for diving carries, that's a just single Q or W, I don't know how you play renekton but I usually don't dive in then die without killing a single carry, that frankly sounds very stupid to me. And executioner isn't only for killing carries. If you're still alive after diving the carries in a team fight, the rest of their team would already below 50%. "Please shut the fuck up, you are just blatantly wrong" The single best argument I have ever seen. Heck why say anything else when you can just say. "Please shut the fuck up, you are just blatantly wrong" That will definitely be enough to ensure a successful argument. I have no idea why you got so anal.[/quote]

[quote=luizdeh]I think going over 9 points in offense is overkill. [[renekton]]'s early game bullyness is enough with the 9 points and an early [[brutalizer]] or even double [[doran's blade]] or some other shit. A [[vampiric scepter]] might work as well against squishies. The thing with [[renekton]] is he falls off a cliff late-game damage-wise and a few more points in offense don't really help at that point in the game, where he is better served getting 1-2 damage items ([[ravenous hydra]] OP) and focusing on being an almost unkillable dive-machine. You might also be underestimating tenacity.[/quote]

[quote=Andrax1]Looking at the OP again, I think that people wouldn't get the point I'm trying to make so I'm gonna edit it. The point of putting 11 on offense is not to put more points in offense, it's so that you can get executioner and so you don't have to sink points on brute force just to get martial mastery. I don't underestimate tenacious, it is good and it stacks with merc treds but I feel that the 11/19 build is more point efficient and effective.[/quote]

[quote=Janitsu][[martial mastery]] gives some good ad early, and [[executioneer]] is kinda meh, because 5% is 50 damage if you deal 1000 damage and 100 damage if you deal 2000 damage, and this is only after the champion is below 50% health and they usually have some resists.[/quote]

[quote=sirell]What's the point of creating a theorycrafting thread and then ignoring what everyone else is saying? Especially when what they said is valid?[/quote]

[quote=Embracing]A: Theory craft thread blahblah B: Do this C: Do this A: If you guys knew how to play renek then you'd understand Wtf is this logic? There's literally no point in making a theorycrafting thread if all you want is people to agree with you.[/quote]

[quote=sirell]At least NicknameMy actually discusses.[/quote]

[quote=Andrax1]I was only clarifying myself because it didn't seem like my original post was clear enough to get my point across because people are just saying the same thing again and again, "9/21 masteries is the best". What I don't understand is why people take brute force and martial mastery when it's a waste of three points instead investing them elsewhere. So far I haven't heard a reason as to why people do that. Yes martial mastery is decent, even good early but there are better places where you can put those points instead of sinking three points just to get a mastery that's only most effective in early game.[/quote]

[quote=Janitsu]Yes, exactly. I take Life steal quints, ad marks because I want to have better early game. I don't take armor penetration marks on my ADC only because they help me win late game (the AD marks do that job better because they give me early dominance). [[feast]] on a champion who doesn't use mana though, pretty optional mastery and [[expose weakness]] is just bad in general because you don't really do any bonus damage to the champion, unless the whole team is attacking that one enemy, and still in that case pretty useless.[/quote]

[quote=SkidmarkD][quote=Andrax1] @skidmark The premise of your statement is that it isn't viable to not follow what everyone else is doing. What would be the point of the "theory crafting" thread if you can't even consider not following what everyone else is doing? Just because everyone thought the world was flat doesn't mean it was. [/quote] A theory is formulated based on facts. In your case it's based on an idea with very little facts/results to support it. I provided a means for you to gather facts/results, of which I already checked some and formulated a differing theory, one which is generally accepted by the majority of my peers. Your theory isn't quite as accepted. It lacks a foundation of facts. At the moment it's a collection of personal idea's from which it is formulated. Such a theory will easily be discarted without a proper factual backing. That being said, you missed the part where I said you should play the champ how you see fit. One time I formulated and posted a build theory on [[Xin Zhao]]. It was shot down by highly regarded peers that specialize in jungling. It stopped me from discussing it any further, yet it hasn't stopped me from using said build. I'd rather spend my time using said build, proving to myself that it works, than to waste time trying to convince complete strangers on a forum. But that's just me. :D EDIT: Seeing as you want rebuttals for your theory in stead of just the 9/21 is OP, we shall try to provide. [[double-edged sword]] isn't really nice for a bruiser. And it gets worse if your enemy laner has a nice ranged poke. It's good for all in assassins like [[Talon]], [[Kha'zix]], but on a melee bruiser like [[Renekton]] it can potentially hurt more than it helps. Making it a liability. [wiki mastery=feast] is worthless. One half is useless on a mana-less champ, the other half nets you roughly ~400 hp in an entire game. This is significantly less than your starting HP at lvl 1. It's not even worth it at low levels. Dumping a point in [[Recovery]] would yield similar results, without the need to kill something. [[Executioner]] nets you an equivalent of ~5 AD early game. With severe conditions: ONLY on champions, ONLY when they are below 50%. Haven't checked what it nets mid to late game, but I'm not quite convinced. It's only attractive when you can combine it with [[Dangerous game]], which I feel is better orientated for carries/assassins. I agree that 3 points in [[Brute force]] doesn't seem to yield much, but combined with [[Martial mastery]] it's not that bad. Early game it nets you just as much as [[Executioner]], without the restrictions. Which means you have a larger window for last hitting, which is still super important, and your poking/harrassing will be at max power even if the enemy is over 50% hp. Added bonus is that it works on towers/inhibs, means less time needed to take down either. Dropping [[Second Wind]] really hurts the potential of [[Cull the meek]] and [[Dominus]]. With a [[Spirit visage]] and proper timing on either ability, it can turn the tide of a fight. This is what I get from my lack of experience on actually playing the champion. Wonder what the real players can come up with.[/quote]