Crafting Skarner.

[quote=BlackIntent]So after looking at a few of the builds on mobafire for Skarner and playing around with him for a few days; I realized that my biggest issue with most of these builds in the inability to spam skills due to lack of mana. So I started grabbing Manamune to deal with that issue, which allows me to constantly slow lock and heal/shield. Last build went like this: Manamune. Merc. Treads. Trinity Force. Madreds Bloodrazor. Rylais. Hextech Gunblade. Defense masteries and Ar.pen/MR per level/armor runes. What do you guys think? Any input? I'm considering removing Rylais due the fact that I play him more like a roamer midgame and usually try to have red buff.[/quote]

[quote=Trojan995]Nah, I think you don't need manamune. While he does have high mana costs, it's pretty easy to solve that with philo and catalyst (or doran's ring + catalyst), which is cheaper and gives more options. madred's isn't a great item as a core, it's really situational when you're against high-health targets. Get wit's end instead, deals nearly as much damage (more in some cases), and is far cheaper. Don't take defensive masteries, just get 9/0/21 masteries.[/quote]

[quote=PotatisFarfar]usally have hextech as core. Then goes either triforce or tanky. Dunno really how to build him... It is tricky.[/quote]

[quote=BlackIntent]The only real benefit I see from Wit's End over Madreds is the MR you get. With Madreds you're talking about extra damage and armor. The only time Madreds passive will do less damage than Wit's End is if they have less than 1000 hp. The added damage, same amount of attack speed, and armor feels too good to let go. With Manamune and Madreds you're just augmenting the damage from Trinity Force, bigger burst means easier ganks. 300 AD with this build, then the x1.5 from Tri-Force every other attack due to Crystal Slash spamming, pushes out a lot more damage than people realize. Certainly prevents enemies from feeling safer by building a little MR. - And on a side note, a Philosophers Stone won't keep your mana up if you spam Crystal Slash and Fracture (which I do so I can maintain lane control).[/quote]

[quote=Trojan995][quote=BlackIntent] The only real benefit I see from Wit's End over Madreds is the MR you get. With Madreds you're talking about extra damage and armor. The only time Madreds passive will do less damage than Wit's End is if they have less than 1000 hp. The added damage, same amount of attack speed, and armor feels too good to let go. With Manamune and Madreds you're just augmenting the damage from Trinity Force, bigger burst means easier ganks. 300 AD with this build, then the x1.5 from Tri-Force every other attack due to Crystal Slash spamming, pushes out a lot more damage than people realize. Certainly prevents enemies from feeling safer by building a little MR. - And on a side note, a Philosophers Stone won't keep your mana up if you spam Crystal Slash and Fracture (which I do so I can maintain lane control). [/quote] Trinity force is 150% of base damage, not total damage - which means you'll be dealing 195 physical damage every trinity force proc (which only procs every 2 seconds, not every other attack). Madred's may give more damage and attack speed, but it's 1800 more gold - that's almost double wit's end. It's not worth it for the minor stat boosts. Yes, philo stone + catalyst will keep your mana up, provided you're managing your mana adequately. "Lane Control" is a result of not pushing the lane, so I don't see how expending mana controls your lane more. If you mean harass, you're not going to be able to get more than a few hits from E on the enemy, or a Q or 2 every once in a while in lane, unless you're engaging to kill, in which case you have enough of a mana pool from catalyst.[/quote]

[quote=BlackIntent]I see what you're saying, but your math is a little off. Trinity force procs on 200 additional damage isn't 195... I might be more aggressive than you are use to, I feel like I should be on top of the enemy laner as much as possible, since most laners have some form of longer range harass. Having Manamune will allow you to do that and still keep your health up (through fracture use). Not to mention that if the enemy has more than 2000 hp you'll be doing twice the damage with Madreds as you would with Wit's End. Not arguing about the price, it is pretty expensive, but I feel like it scales a lot better toward endgame. I don't build catalyst due the the fact that I think BV isn't as useful since the bubble now sucks. 45 seconds is just too long to wait in 5's. Maybe in 3's where there's less spells coming at you, or a caster heavy team. It's too easy to pop that bubble in Summoners Rift. If I did put BV in, I'd probably replace Rylais with it.[/quote]

[quote=Trojan995][quote=BlackIntent] I see what you're saying, but your math is a little off. Trinity force procs on 200 additional damage isn't 195...[/quote] *facepalm* okay, let me explain this in simple terms: There's 3 types of AD scaling: - full AD scaling, which scales on both base and total AD. [[tiger stance]] scales on 150% of his total AD. - bonus AD scaling, which scales only on the AD you get from items, masteries, and runes. [[judgment]] scales on 120% of bonus AD. - base AD, which scales only on the AD that comes with the champion. [[trinity force]]'s proc scales with 150% of base AD, which means that no matter how much extra AD you get from items, the proc will deal the same amount of damage. Skarner's base AD at level 18 is 129.7, which means the trinity force proc deals (129.7)*(1.5)= 194.55 damage, or about 195 damage. So, I think your math is wrong. [quote] I might be more aggressive than you are use to, I feel like I should be on top of the enemy laner as much as possible, since most laners have some form of longer range harass.[/quote] Still not true. If you're on top of them that frequently, then either you're dead, they're dead, or you're doing something wrong. Philo stone and catalyst together give insane amounts of lane sustain, and getting a manamune is simply overkill. [quote] Having Manamune will allow you to do that and still keep your health up (through fracture use). [/quote] manamune at best gives you indirect sustain, but fracture isn't great sustain and philo + cata give both indirect (you can spam fracture just as much) and direct sustain - far better than manamune. [quote]Not to mention that if the enemy has more than 2000 hp you'll be doing twice the damage with Madreds as you would with Wit's End. Not arguing about the price, it is pretty expensive, but I feel like it scales a lot better toward endgame.[/quote] Even so, you want that early/mid game advantage that wits end gives in terms of DPS, and the price of madred's makes it difficult to buy early without sacrificing something else. [quote]I don't build catalyst due the the fact that I think BV isn't as useful since the bubble now sucks. 45 seconds is just too long to wait in 5's. Maybe in 3's where there's less spells coming at you, or a caster heavy team. It's too easy to pop that bubble in Summoners Rift. If I did put BV in, I'd probably replace Rylais with it. [/quote] The bubble doesn't suck - 45 seconds isn't terrible, but the bubble isn't the dealbreaker. The health, mana, and MR are still great, and the bubble is still useful. It's always been easy to pop the bubble, that's the point. It's difficult to pop the bubble without sacrificing CC, or having significant team coordination. BV gives great defense, and that's undeniable. The greatest part is the mana, so you can buy catalyst early and have easy lane sustain without having to fill an entire item slot with manamune, which is expensive and doesn't give enough AD for its worth.[/quote]