Leona's Bestest Buddy

[quote=The_Nameless_Bard][quote=Urscythe] He makes a better tank than a bruiser. Without defensive items, he's extremely twiggy. Blitz's primarily role is disruption, not killing. The longer he's alive, the longer he's disrupting the enemy team. Leona's only real advantage over Blitzcrank is her ult, and even that is questionable - Blitz's ult does 500 damage in a wide player-based AOE and is on an 18 second cooldown with maxed CDR (and it also periodically zaps some unlucky bastard for 300 damage every 2 sec FOR FREE.) Because there's no delay on his ult, it's also unquestionably better for shutting down people like Katarina, Karthus, Fiddlesticks, Nunu, Galio, etc. But they're different. I'd love Leona's if it simply did more damage, particularly if you did bonus damage for targets that were stunned so they reward good aim. Leona really doesn't have much of an advantage over Blitzcrank in pretty much any area. She's tankier if you max W first (which means your stun suffers), but that only really matters until both have their core, at which point her advantage in tankiness is lost in the face of Blitz's far superior disruption potential. But Leona is, overall, in a somewhat solid place. Her ult needs more damage, her W should probably be changed to be half passive (half of the bonus is passive, half is activated), and her stun or zenith blade could probably use a larger coefficient. Her main problem is that she's designed to be a stunbot tank, and Blitzcrank does that role better than she does, so she needs something else (in this case, damage) to remain competitive. [/quote] Under that argument Janna would make a better tank than Leona... How many Tank Jannas do you see around? Or Kennen (Tank Kennen is very good btw)? he's a better tank than Shen is if you only wanna talk about disruption and damage. Tanks need a combination of disruption and good defensive stats, this is why a lot of champs who have very good disruption aren't usually played as Tanks @Searz I agree with you there, her ult needs a little work.[/quote]

[quote=castlemanRC][quote=Urscythe] He makes a better tank than a bruiser. Without defensive items, he's extremely twiggy. Blitz's primarily role is disruption, not killing. The longer he's alive, the longer he's disrupting the enemy team. Leona's only real advantage over Blitzcrank is her ult, and even that is questionable - Blitz's ult does 500 damage in a wide player-based AOE and is on an 18 second cooldown with maxed CDR (and it also periodically zaps some unlucky bastard for 300 damage every 2 sec FOR FREE.) Because there's no delay on his ult, it's also unquestionably better for shutting down people like Katarina, Karthus, Fiddlesticks, Nunu, Galio, etc. But they're different. I'd love Leona's if it simply did more damage, particularly if you did bonus damage for targets that were stunned so they reward good aim. Leona really doesn't have much of an advantage over Blitzcrank in pretty much any area. She's tankier if you max W first (which means your stun suffers), but that only really matters until both have their core, at which point her advantage in tankiness is lost in the face of Blitz's far superior disruption potential. But Leona is, overall, in a somewhat solid place. Her ult needs more damage, her W should probably be changed to be half passive (half of the bonus is passive, half is activated), and her stun or zenith blade could probably use a larger coefficient. Her main problem is that she's designed to be a stunbot tank, and Blitzcrank does that role better than she does, so she needs something else (in this case, damage) to remain competitive. [/quote] Good points there. I'm not sure that his base stats make him a better tank than leona, but obviously he can be built w/ tanky items. One issue that I see, however, is that there are not as many "tank" items that fit w/ Blitz's kit, whereas i think there are many more "TANK" items that fit leona's kit better. One other point is that the only substantial benefit to Leona's stun as it goes up in levels is the damage and CD. The stun is 1.25 sec at all levels. Maxing her eclipse first to increase her ability to tank and her stun second seems like a pretty logical choice to me (and is how I play her). At any rate, the truth is, you are making me want to actually get better w/ blitz and see what I can do (I kind of suck w/ him atm). Thanks for your comments they sort of inspire me . . . coop games, here I come![/quote]

[quote=Vort][quote=castlemanRC] One issue that I see, however, is that there are not as many "tank" items that fit w/ Blitz's kit [/quote] Seems to me [[Banshee's Veil]] and [[Frozen Heart]] would be two excellent items for tank Blitz. Cooldown reduction and extra mana work wonders on him.[/quote]

[quote=Mrs Warboys]All these 'Blitz is better' people are missing the HUGE difference between Rocket Grab and Zenith Blade. Leona's power as a stunbot comes from Zenith Blade. No matter who stands in front of her, if she has 5 minions blocking the way or a whole team of champions, Leona can hit the squishy at the back and F*CK them up. Her ultimate also has massive range, so she can disrupt ranged carries and squishies even if she misses Zenith... while she can also protect her own squishies when she's far behind enemy lines. Blitz can't do that. Blitz has to literally run through a whole enemy team to get to the squishy at the back. His speed increase isn't nearly as effective as the dash from Zenith Blade, Rocket Grab is useless against a good team (do you really think he'll be able to grab Ashe against decent opponents?). Zenith = 6 second cooldown when at full CDR (I build CDR tank... since she has inherent survivability with W). Leona is by far the most mobile tank in the game. Blitzcrank is a great initiator (against idiots), and can destroy a single target before a fight starts... but good luck hitting anyone important. Leona is a rockin' tank because you CANNOT STOP HER. Waste your stuns on her, sure, then she's doing a great job. You can't slow her though, Zenith has a long enough range to invalidate slows (as does her Ulti). She can stun every 4 seconds, immobilize every 6 seconds and has a permanent +70 MR+AR as early as 22 minutes into the game (CDR build). Quite frankly, she owns Blitz at tanking. And who doesn't max W first? Crazy people![/quote]

[quote=castlemanRC][quote=Mrs Warboys] All these 'Blitz is better' people are missing the HUGE difference between Rocket Grab and Zenith Blade. Leona's power as a stunbot comes from Zenith Blade. No matter who stands in front of her, if she has 5 minions blocking the way or a whole team of champions, Leona can hit the squishy at the back and F*CK them up. Her ultimate also has massive range, so she can disrupt ranged carries and squishies even if she misses Zenith... while she can also protect her own squishies when she's far behind enemy lines. Blitz can't do that. Blitz has to literally run through a whole enemy team to get to the squishy at the back. His speed increase isn't nearly as effective as the dash from Zenith Blade, Rocket Grab is useless against a good team (do you really think he'll be able to grab Ashe against decent opponents?). Zenith = 6 second cooldown when at full CDR (I build CDR tank... since she has inherent survivability with W). Leona is by far the most mobile tank in the game. Blitzcrank is a great initiator (against idiots), and can destroy a single target before a fight starts... but good luck hitting anyone important. Leona is a rockin' tank because you CANNOT STOP HER. Waste your stuns on her, sure, then she's doing a great job. You can't slow her though, Zenith has a long enough range to invalidate slows (as does her Ulti). She can stun every 4 seconds, immobilize every 6 seconds and has a permanent +70 MR+AR as early as 22 minutes into the game (CDR build). Quite frankly, she owns Blitz at tanking. And who doesn't max W first? Crazy people! [/quote] Well said and very good points. I haven't tried building much CDR on her, just tank, but I will have to try that out too. What CDR items do you try to use? Obviously frozen heart, but do you go w/ AP items like Morello's, or AD like Youmuu's? Soul Shroud might work, but not sure how good of an item it would be for her.[/quote]

[quote=Beeswarm17]I actually came to this thread to look at champs who were good at being paired with Leona. So how did this become Blitz v. Leona, again? Seems to be missing the point. Just saying. Riven actually synergizes very well with Leona, once again because of double passive proc, and if someone can hold a target in place, Riven can absolutely demolish a target. Akali could probably do pretty well with Leona as well. Mark of the Assassin proc with Leona's passive seriously hurts, and a little bit of CC with Akali goes a LONG way. (Yes I know that she solo's well. That's not the point.) Fiddle would make a decent partner for her as well. Inescapable crowstorm... Also, Pantheon. Panth ult coming in? Blink, stun, and stun again to hold them in place for the ult, and panth finishes them off. Huge damage potential there.[/quote]

[quote=Frightfuljester]Okay, what about in team fight engages? With her ability to initiate she can be rediculously effective but i often find myself alone for 2+ seconds which can turn me to goo pretty fast.[/quote]

[quote=Frightfuljester][quote=castlemanRC] [quote=Urscythe] He makes a better tank than a bruiser. Without defensive items, he's extremely twiggy. Blitz's primarily role is disruption, not killing. The longer he's alive, the longer he's disrupting the enemy team. Leona's only real advantage over Blitzcrank is her ult, and even that is questionable - Blitz's ult does 500 damage in a wide player-based AOE and is on an 18 second cooldown with maxed CDR (and it also periodically zaps some unlucky bastard for 300 damage every 2 sec FOR FREE.) Because there's no delay on his ult, it's also unquestionably better for shutting down people like Katarina, Karthus, Fiddlesticks, Nunu, Galio, etc. But they're different. I'd love Leona's if it simply did more damage, particularly if you did bonus damage for targets that were stunned so they reward good aim. Leona really doesn't have much of an advantage over Blitzcrank in pretty much any area. She's tankier if you max W first (which means your stun suffers), but that only really matters until both have their core, at which point her advantage in tankiness is lost in the face of Blitz's far superior disruption potential. But Leona is, overall, in a somewhat solid place. Her ult needs more damage, her W should probably be changed to be half passive (half of the bonus is passive, half is activated), and her stun or zenith blade could probably use a larger coefficient. Her main problem is that she's designed to be a stunbot tank, and Blitzcrank does that role better than she does, so she needs something else (in this case, damage) to remain competitive. [/quote] Good points there. I'm not sure that his base stats make him a better tank than leona, but obviously he can be built w/ tanky items. One issue that I see, however, is that there are not as many "tank" items that fit w/ Blitz's kit, whereas i think there are many more "TANK" items that fit leona's kit better. One other point is that the only substantial benefit to Leona's stun as it goes up in levels is the damage and CD. The stun is 1.25 sec at all levels. Maxing her eclipse first to increase her ability to tank and her stun second seems like a pretty logical choice to me (and is how I play her). At any rate, the truth is, you are making me want to actually get better w/ blitz and see what I can do (I kind of suck w/ him atm). Thanks for your comments they sort of inspire me . . . coop games, here I come! [/quote] I agree, i dont like crank as a tank to much because other then his ult and rocket grab he doesn't really have the CC to shut up team fights like Leona does and paired with leona seems like a bad plan all around[/quote]

[quote=Frightfuljester][quote=Beeswarm17] I actually came to this thread to look at champs who were good at being paired with Leona. So how did this become Blitz v. Leona, again? Seems to be missing the point. Just saying. Riven actually synergizes very well with Leona, once again because of double passive proc, and if someone can hold a target in place, Riven can absolutely demolish a target. Akali could probably do pretty well with Leona as well. Mark of the Assassin proc with Leona's passive seriously hurts, and a little bit of CC with Akali goes a LONG way. (Yes I know that she solo's well. That's not the point.) I lane with a friend who mains fiddle quiet a bit and i have to say that early game the pair is mediocre in the lane but in team fights it's hell to deal with. I almost want to say that I'd take Garen over akali for his AOE damage. Lock down 2 plus enemies at once and let r rip. I still havnt worked with Riven at all could be interesting I'll have to check it out Fiddle would make a decent partner for her as well. Inescapable crowstorm... Also, Pantheon. Panth ult coming in? Blink, stun, and stun again to hold them in place for the ult, and panth finishes them off. Huge damage potential there. [/quote][/quote]

[quote=Frightfuljester][quote=Mrs Warboys] All these 'Blitz is better' people are missing the HUGE difference between Rocket Grab and Zenith Blade. Leona's power as a stunbot comes from Zenith Blade. No matter who stands in front of her, if she has 5 minions blocking the way or a whole team of champions, Leona can hit the squishy at the back and F*CK them up. Her ultimate also has massive range, so she can disrupt ranged carries and squishies even if she misses Zenith... while she can also protect her own squishies when she's far behind enemy lines. Blitz can't do that. Blitz has to literally run through a whole enemy team to get to the squishy at the back. His speed increase isn't nearly as effective as the dash from Zenith Blade, Rocket Grab is useless against a good team (do you really think he'll be able to grab Ashe against decent opponents?). Thank you for knowing what your talking about in the whole Blitz VS Leona topic. There is no comparision between the 2. Blitz is a reverse initiater, Leona is a rolling cluster fuck. Didn't want this to be one more battle ground for a needless argument x.x Zenith = 6 second cooldown when at full CDR (I build CDR tank... since she has inherent survivability with W). Leona is by far the most mobile tank in the game. Blitzcrank is a great initiator (against idiots), and can destroy a single target before a fight starts... but good luck hitting anyone important. Leona is a rockin' tank because you CANNOT STOP HER. Waste your stuns on her, sure, then she's doing a great job. You can't slow her though, Zenith has a long enough range to invalidate slows (as does her Ulti). She can stun every 4 seconds, immobilize every 6 seconds and has a permanent +70 MR+AR as early as 22 minutes into the game (CDR build). Quite frankly, she owns Blitz at tanking. And who doesn't max W first? Crazy people! [/quote][/quote]