Leona's Bestest Buddy

[quote=Mrs Warboys]Sorry for derailing and joining the Blitz vs Leona debate. I'm protective of Leona because I love every single thing about her, except her /laugh, and think she deserves recognition as an incredibly powerful tank [quote=castlemanRC] Well said and very good points. I haven't tried building much CDR on her, just tank, but I will have to try that out too. What CDR items do you try to use? Obviously frozen heart, but do you go w/ AP items like Morello's, or AD like Youmuu's? Soul Shroud might work, but not sure how good of an item it would be for her. [/quote] I get pre-game CDR from Focus Glyphs, Celerity Quints and 9/21/0 Masteries ------ In-game my build is... Early Game [[Philosopher's Stone]] [[Boots of Speed]] [[Heart of Gold]] Early-Mid [[Ionian Boots of Lucidity]] [[Kindlegem]] Mid Resistances and general tank items (Sunfire, Thornmail, Banshees) Mid-Late [[Shurelya's Reverie]] Late (if the situation calls for it...) [[Randuin's Omen]] + Sell boots for [[Mercury's Treads]] or [[Ninja Tabi]] ----- Early game, I find that your stunning and maxed Eclipse give you more than enough survivability. I suck at farming (Leona sucks at it too), so the Heart of Gold and Philo Stone help me play the support champion for bot lane. Around the 12 minute mark, once you get your Lucidity Boots and Kindlegem, you'll be at 40% CDR. I try to save my Philo stone as long as possible (for the gold), and spend mid-game generating cash and buying my main tank items. Once I've got the essentials, I'll upgrade to Shurelya's Reverie. The active seriously rocks. Eventually your Celerity runes will hit their limit (and you'll convert Kindle+Philo into Shurelya's) and you can sell Lucidity boots for appropriate tank boots (Ninja Tabi + Dodge Masteries and runes is very helpful against late-game carries) and top up with a Blue elixir if you really wanna hit 40% or Randuin's Omen if the situation calls for it. I wouldn't use any other build. It's just been so damn effective in all situations. And building CDR and Gold per 5 gives you a lot of small health boosts which complement your W extremely well until the enemy's big guns start getting fed.[/quote]

[quote=Urscythe][quote=Mrs Warboys] All these 'Blitz is better' people are missing the HUGE difference between Rocket Grab and Zenith Blade. Leona's power as a stunbot comes from Zenith Blade. No matter who stands in front of her, if she has 5 minions blocking the way or a whole team of champions, Leona can hit the squishy at the back and F*CK them up. Her ultimate also has massive range, so she can disrupt ranged carries and squishies even if she misses Zenith... while she can also protect her own squishies when she's far behind enemy lines. Blitz can't do that. Blitz has to literally run through a whole enemy team to get to the squishy at the back. His speed increase isn't nearly as effective as the dash from Zenith Blade, Rocket Grab is useless against a good team (do you really think he'll be able to grab Ashe against decent opponents?). Zenith = 6 second cooldown when at full CDR (I build CDR tank... since she has inherent survivability with W). Leona is by far the most mobile tank in the game. Blitzcrank is a great initiator (against idiots), and can destroy a single target before a fight starts... but good luck hitting anyone important. Leona is a rockin' tank because you CANNOT STOP HER. Waste your stuns on her, sure, then she's doing a great job. You can't slow her though, Zenith has a long enough range to invalidate slows (as does her Ulti). She can stun every 4 seconds, immobilize every 6 seconds and has a permanent +70 MR+AR as early as 22 minutes into the game (CDR build). Quite frankly, she owns Blitz at tanking. And who doesn't max W first? Crazy people! [/quote] Actually, Zenith Blade only warps to the last target hit. If they're smart enough to use creeps and terrain to avoid a Rocket Grab, they're smart enough to position someone their carry - or even just make sure a creep is handy. You'll still warp to them, but you won't stun them. It's a risk vs reward thing. If Blitz hooks someone squishy into his team, it's a guaranteed kill unless they either Flash out (which can be handled by forcing their Flash earlier) or engage at a disadvantage. If Leona zips to their carry, there's a good chance they can more or less ignore her - Leona does piss poor damage, even built as a bruiser, and she doesn't really have much of an initiate if her ult's down. Blitz is also a [i]far[/i] larger threat during laning. Power Fist is available more often, will do more damage (particularly with an early Sheen), and is basically free. Getting caught out of position with Rocket Grab means you Flash or die. If you Flash, it makes you ripe for a gank. Eclipse doesn't matter for jack during laning because its damage is poor and it's still not enough to let you dive. Trying to stunlock someone with dash+Q will get you killed from overextending. Overdrive translates to superior map presence. Zenith Blade is great for zipping around in a fight that's already happening, but does nothing to help you cross the map to GET to the fight in the first place. It also translates to better damage output, which doesn't require a teammate. Power Fist is better than her shield stun in every single possible way. It can't be reduced by tenacity, can't be cleansed out of, costs less, and is on a shorter cooldown. Her shield stun is Power Fist with added suck. Both have great ults, but Blitz's is more useful once the fight's begun. It's instant and on a very brief cooldown, so for purposes of stopping channeled ults and spells, it's better. Leona's is better for initiating. Blitz's does WAY more damage. In terms of items, they both tend to use a lot of the same items if you're building Blitz tanky. Frozen Heart is a fantastic item on either hero. Both like the CDR, provides a useful aura, provides a lot of armor, and eliminates mana problems. Blitz gets double benefit from the mana due to his passive. Philo Stone is also a great early item on either. Provides sustain for lane and some mana regen to help with mana issues. Shurelia's is a great item as well. I've personally been toying with a Phage build on Blitz, but that's been forestalled by a recent appearance of Minecraft addiction since my brother bought me it. I'd wager it would be an effective item on Leona as well. Leona is harder to escape from, but I strongly believe Blitz brings more to the table than she does, especially since he's very capable of getting kills on his own (as well as tearing down towers) all game. While neither has good farm, Blitz's farm is still better than hers and Rocket Grab is a game-changing ability. Zenith Blade, not so much. Just having Rocket Grab against you forces you to play differently. Your carries [b]MUST[/b] be hiding behind a tank or creeps; you [b]MUST[/b] have vision of nearby areas (you can be hooked through trees), even moreso than normal; during laning, you [b]MUST[/b] have creeps between you and Blitzcrank, and that also applies to creeps to the sides to prevent him from Flashing laterally to get a clear shot. Additionally, Rocket Grab does not put Blitzcrank in danger. If you mistime Zenith Blade, or they bait it, it could just do nothing but get you killed. I'm also not keen on the reliance on Eclipse for your defensive needs. Remember, it has a cooldown, and it also has a very brief duration unless you can arrange to have it blow up on something. If you're caught with it down and stunned/silenced, you're going to be squishier than most bruisers. This can get you killed or force you to pill home to recharge, giving them time to push forward.[/quote]

[quote=The_Nameless_Bard]that's why you still build Leona as a tank...... Eclipse should be used to make you even more tanky, not to make up for not being tanky..... As for damage, that's why you build her with a little AP and CDR: [[boots of speed]], 3 [[health potion]]s (my preferred start, but you could go with a [[Doran's Shield]] or a [[regrowth pendant]] & a [[health potion]]) [[Philosopher's Stone]] [[Mercury's Treads]] [[Sunfire cape]] [[Abyssal Scepter]] [[Frozen Heart]] or [[Zhonya's Hourglass]] (depending on what you need or can afford) [[Guardian Angel]] [[Warmog's Armor]] or [[Trinity Force]] (depending on what you need)[/quote]

[quote=Mrs Warboys]@urscythe Zenith Blade doesn't activate on creeps, only champions. Fair enough points though, I should really play more Blitz (need to buy him first), since Leona is my favourite champ so I should enjoy him too. I really think you're underestimating Zenith Blade's strength compared to Rocket Grab though. Yes, Rocket Grab is a better initiate and results in death 90% of the time it hits, you can't deny that it's damn hard to hit against anyone that knows what they're doing. Creep and champion blocking is so easy, whereas Zenith Blade's only counter is to have someone spooning your carry and then enough CC to prevent Leona focusing all her attacks on them. Don't forget, Leona can also stun at long range with her ult, and THEN Zenith Blade to them. Lots of people don't realize the range of Solar Flare and you can catch people pretty easy with it. That leads to easy Zenith Blading and the stunlock begins. Relying on W with Leona is fine. It ALWAYS hits something and with CDR it's only down for about 2 seconds before being active again. Blitz's only survivability comes from his passive, which requires him to build Mana and Resistances to maximize (since a health shield is useless without tanky items). It also disincentivizes using his abilities in combat, which is frankly just poor game design in my opinion. Wasn't aware of the cooldown on Power Fist, 1 second less than Leona. His ult has crazy low cooldown too, do people use CDR much on Blitz? I can imagine it being good for his disruption but bad if you spam all his abiliies and go OOM. Looking at Blitz's skills, he's just such a poorly designed champion. Q = fine. W scales off AD (since it's an AS buff), E scales off AD, Q scales off AP, his passive scales off Mana. This dude needs Mana, AD, AP and Resistances to be at his most optimal, without including the loveliness that is CDR. That's awfully contradictory. No wonder he's not highly rated. Blitz = Mobile before combat, great initiation, great CC AoE/single target[b]OR[/b] good survivability (the 'or' is key)... I'm not really aware of how much damage he can pump out. His scaling seems so all-over-the-place and I don't play him or against him much. Leona = Mobile in combat, good initiation, great single target CC, great survivability.. can't forget the crazy damage her passive is capable of creating too (although that's pretty unreliable unless you're in a pre-made) Anyway, this is waaaay too off topic. No more! haha[/quote]

[quote=Urscythe][quote=The_Nameless_Bard] that's why you still build Leona as a tank...... Eclipse should be used to make you even more tanky, not to make up for not being tanky..... As for damage, that's why you build her with a little AP and CDR: [[boots of speed]], 3 [[health potion]]s (my preferred start, but you could go with a [[Doran's Shield]] or a [[regrowth pendant]] & a [[health potion]]) [[Philosopher's Stone]] [[Mercury's Treads]] [[Sunfire cape]] [[Abyssal Scepter]] [[Frozen Heart]] or [[Zhonya's Hourglass]] (depending on what you need or can afford) [[Guardian Angel]] [[Warmog's Armor]] or [[Trinity Force]] (depending on what you need) [/quote] Why not just take a tanky hero that has better use of that AP, then? Leona's base damage is awful and her ratios aren't high enough to make up for it. I suppose you could build some damage on her, but then you're just going to suck at both tanking AND doing damage instead of one or the other. [quote]Creep and champion blocking is so easy, whereas Zenith Blade's only counter is to have someone spooning your carry and then enough CC to prevent Leona focusing all her attacks on them.[/quote] Why would you be concerned about Leona attacking someone? Out of every single tank and hero that [i]can[/i] be a tank, her damage is the worst. She has great CC, but so do other tanks... and they do more damage, too. Blitz doesn't need AP. You get some AP from Sheen/Trinity Force, but only a moron builds for it (or a troll.) You don't use Rocket Grab for the damage and you probably want to hang onto your ult for use as an interrupt more than for the damage, especially towards late game. He doesn't really need AD much, either. Trinity Force is about as much damage as you get on him. You get both CDR and Mana from Frozen Heart, as well as from Trinity Force. With masteries you only need about another 10%-15%, and you can easily get that with Shurelia's, or with Ionian Boots if you don't need the Tenacity or want to get it elsewhere.[/quote]

[quote=Mrs Warboys]You'd want to stop Leona attacking your carry because they aren't going to be doing any damage when she's stunning them every 4 seconds and preventing them from moving. Plus, any attack on the squishy will proc a 120-40 (can't remember exact numbers) magic damage nuke if your team are attacking the right target. Leona can drop a squishy in crazy quick time, even without planning to proc the passive (passives tend to proc regularly by luck)[/quote]

[quote=The_Nameless_Bard][quote=Urscythe] Why not just take a tanky hero that has better use of that AP, then? Leona's base damage is awful and her ratios aren't high enough to make up for it. I suppose you could build some damage on her, but then you're just going to suck at both tanking AND doing damage instead of one or the other. [/quote] She has decent AP ratios on her first three abilities and her ult's is better than plenty of AP carries have... One of the important things to remember is that as a tank you are a supportive member of the team...abyssal scepter is worth it even if you don't build another AP item because it also increases your allies' magic damage to the people you are attacking.[/quote]

[quote=Mrs Warboys]So I basically main Cassiopeia and Leona, yet didn't realize that they'd be a pretty formidable duo! DoTs rock with Leona's passive, Stuns rock with Cassi's QEEE (making it super easy to land as well as her W). Cassi's W can catch people for easier Zenith Blading and there probably isn't a better way to weave abilities than QEEE. Unfortunately I don't know many people in LoL, especially those who play Cassi or Leona on a regular basis. Would love to try it out in Duo Queue (I'm in SEA Garena if anyone is interested).[/quote]

[quote=alyzar]Teemo Xin Zhao Lux Pantheon Sona I've found that all of those characters can work very well with Leona in a lane.[/quote]

[quote=Urscythe][quote=Mrs Warboys] So I basically main Cassiopeia and Leona, yet didn't realize that they'd be a pretty formidable duo! DoTs rock with Leona's passive, Stuns rock with Cassi's QEEE (making it super easy to land as well as her W). Cassi's W can catch people for easier Zenith Blading and there probably isn't a better way to weave abilities than QEEE. Unfortunately I don't know many people in LoL, especially those who play Cassi or Leona on a regular basis. Would love to try it out in Duo Queue (I'm in SEA Garena if anyone is interested). [/quote] Yeah, Cass spams spells so she can almost always pop Leona's passive. Plus Leona can stun them inside a Miasma... lots of sick combos you can pull off.[/quote]