Hwo to counter Morgana.

[quote=JEFFY40HANDS][quote=ZioSerpe] [quote=JEFFY40HANDS] [quote=PsiGuard] [quote=ZioSerpe] I think her best counter is [[cassiopeia]] since she can farm at par and destroy her shield with [[noxious blast]] and [[twin fang]] [/quote] That depends on the skill of the players. [[Morgana]] has better sustain and can shrug off most of Cass' harass since the damage isn't instant. Any delayed or DoT spells are easy to block with [[Black Shield]]. Of course if the morgana never dodges, she would end up losing. [/quote] Early game Cass has the advantage. Morganna's spell shield is broken rather easily and as far as I can tell the DoTs eat through the shield rather quickly too. It's a matter of paitence and timing. Both Cass and Morg can zone but Cass has short CD low mana (because of her passive) harass whereas Morganna has longish CDs with high mana costs. Her spell vamp is solid, but with Cass being able to deal damage on a regular basis and Morganna relying on creeps to keep sustained an agressive Cass who uses her creeps to block Dark Binding properly and lands successive Noxious blasts followed by Twin Fangs while either zoning or farming with Misama can force a morganna to go OOm or lose the lane entirely. The issue is when Morganna hits late game her spell sheild blocks a good portion of damage, as well the utility of her ultimate and her Dark Bindings makes her a huge threat. Cass is a strong laner with great early and mid game control. Her late game damage is also quite nice, but her skill cap is considerably higher. Meaning each Noxious Blast has to land, every Misama has to splash over the right area because Cass needs to be able to use Twin Fang as often for a majority of her DPS in a teamfight. Factor in the melee range ultimate (Still super strong) and you've got a champion that needs excellent positioning and focus to properly make use of her skill set for her team... [/quote] I was already taking into account that if you play cassiopea you know how to damn play her. Quite frankly I understand people saying cassiopea needs a skilled player, but quite frankly she's natural for me, I've rolled faces with her from the very 1st try while I still don't get amazing results with s called ez mode casters like brand or Vlad (old OP vlad). Cassiopea adapts to a playstyle that is so very different from common caster playstyle, I don't think she's THAT hard tbh, I think she's for caster players because she's bassically a constant damage instead of a burst damage. [/quote] I fail to see any continuity in your response.....I was merely agreeing that Cass is a solid early game counter to Morg, but towards mid and late game when Black Shield has a lot more damage protection Cass falls off against Morg in some ways....[/quote]

[quote=Fox Rage][quote=DuffTime] Actually the meta may very well change soon. It could change at any moment, most likely whenever the next tournament goes down and the player base see's something new they want to try. Since high damage bursty champions with life recovery and % pen tend to do fairly well against tanky champions once they burst down the damage dealers, there could be a rise of an assassin-meta, so to speak. Champs like Akali, Talon, Kat, AD and AP carries being the driving forces. Also the kinds of AP's might shift from atomic bomb burst like Brand, Gragas, Orianna, and Annie, to "Sustained burst" like Ryze, Karthus, or AP Kogmaw. Rock Solid clearly recognized these things, and have been having a lot of success with their aggresive team comps, although they may very well continue running tanky line ups as well. Basically what they do is they avoid grouping, so the giant AoE bomb meta is useless, and they run 3-4 single target nukers with life steal and attack from all sides. They've just been rolling the other teams lately, and they're very organized about the way they initiate these fights. What I anticipate in the near future is an evolution in the level of education of the player base. People are going to slowly start to realize that "Meta games" are dumb, and whatever works will work, and pick comps and champions and items based on their practical effectiveness, instead of some supposed meta or FotM champ selection. (Those are ever fluctuating end generally not founded in logical reason.) Maybe I just have too much hope in the intelligence of this player base tbh l0l. [/quote] I'm afraid that yes, you have waaay too much hope in their inteligence. Players just watch a tournament and do exactly as the pro do, thinking it's the best way to win, since pros do it, and pros know everything.[/quote]

[quote=WaffleWarrior][[orianna]][/quote]

[quote=Virtus]Her very early game is pretty bad, because she cannot sustain herself with her passive with early levels of W. Therefore, if you play a champ that has a good early game (Brand with QWE) you can push her back and then deny her exp or even get a kill. Therefore she will be underleveled and you can keep an advantage on her in terms of damage. Bait her shield, don't waste mana on her while she is shielded, and you can count on her being scared of you while her shield is on CD. Wards are necessary for this tactic and good skill in avoiding her Q (last game I got hit by her Q once and she had shot out a good many of them).[/quote]

[quote=JunSupport][quote=Lugignaf] Have you heard the nerfs on her? They're almost insignificant IMO. Ooohhh... spell vamp nerf. Doesn't matter. She'll just rush Revolver and become a formidable opponent again. [/quote] The best Morgana builds I've watched do not rush Hextech Revolver. This nerf will affect her lane, and forcing her to rush revolver will means she's considerably weaker as Spell-vamp items have lower AP value. You may think it's insignificant but Morgana's ENTIRE lane strength revolves around her ability to wipe out an entire minion wave and heal significantly off of them and then build pure AP and totally rock the competition. It's the keystone to her strength.[/quote]

[quote=Babit]^^ Ever since the first time I played as morgana I screamed nerf dat healQQ.[/quote]

[quote=theBMB][quote=JEFFY40HANDS] My meta> current meta. And how is ~6 lines TL;DR? Ranged AD champs dont need a baby sitter if they're 1v1. That's the whole point. They get farm and levels just fine solo top. They can actually risk being agressive because their damage wont just get negated or healed away. AP champs DO need baby sitters because they're typically less mobile/less durable but have superior early game damage. But they go mid because mid is a short lane, they farm, and farm, and farm, and farm. It's boring, it's dumb, it's wrong. They're too squishy to push for long when alone. Send them bot with a healer their issues and required need to sit and farm like a bunch of wimps are gone. They can farm and attack and push, get ganked or escape a gank. They can be rewarded for pushing a lane rather than constantly punished if they "over extend". OT Solo Tops go mid: Short lanes, more exposed, but stronger pushers, mid lane actually becomes dynamic. Mid lane being important it behooves them to push and win the lane ASAP rather than farm ALL DAY LONG. Junglers can actually gank and have more incentive to. Dont confuse "superiority" with "easier" BMB. Theoryetically my suggested meta provides a shorter more dynamic game. Lanes are actually fought over, not just farmed until mid game and then split pushed. An easier meta is not better, it's just lazy, slow ,and boring. If people actually started playing differently the meta would shift. But instead we get people who just go with the flow because it's the easy way. Fuck the easy way. @Whoever suggested Morg V Morg: Boring mid lane becomes infinitely more boring because all you're doing is playing your mirror :/ [/quote] if your "meta" is pitted against the "current" meta here's what we'll have. in top lane we'd have an AD carry vs. a solo top champ like [[nasus]],[[jax]], [[irelia]], or [[rumble]]. Although it depends on the champ i'd say more often than not, the AD champ will lose the lane due to their squishiness being pitted against the inherent durability/survivability of a solo laner. in mid lane, there's a solo top champ vs. an AP carry. This is somewhat undecided as it's hard to say who would win in a matchup without knowing exactly who the champs are. in bot lane, we have a support/ AP champ vs. a support/ AD champ. In this case, the support/ AP duo will have to play extremely aggressively if they want to win the lane in any case. The AD champ is simply going to have better, more consistent poking opportunities due to being reliant on Auto attacks instead of comboing abilities. AP champs are generally dependent on bursting enemies down to 0 quickly, if they can't do that (which is significantly more difficult to do when a support is healing your target), they'll burn through all their mana and suddenly forced into a much more passive position, barring them from farm and even levels if zoned properly. So here, the support/AP lane loses. Yes, the current meta is easier, but that's because it's stronger than the one you suggest. There's a much less delicate balance between your suggested meta and the current meta. In other words, A LOT of work would need to be done to show the merits of your meta over the current one and it would require even more strict team composition and champion choice when choosing the laning options. Not likely to take hold, no matter how people you convince to play it with you.[/quote]

[quote=ZioSerpe][quote=JEFFY40HANDS] [quote=ZioSerpe] [quote=JEFFY40HANDS] [quote=PsiGuard] [quote=ZioSerpe] I think her best counter is [[cassiopeia]] since she can farm at par and destroy her shield with [[noxious blast]] and [[twin fang]] [/quote] That depends on the skill of the players. [[Morgana]] has better sustain and can shrug off most of Cass' harass since the damage isn't instant. Any delayed or DoT spells are easy to block with [[Black Shield]]. Of course if the morgana never dodges, she would end up losing. [/quote] Early game Cass has the advantage. Morganna's spell shield is broken rather easily and as far as I can tell the DoTs eat through the shield rather quickly too. It's a matter of paitence and timing. Both Cass and Morg can zone but Cass has short CD low mana (because of her passive) harass whereas Morganna has longish CDs with high mana costs. Her spell vamp is solid, but with Cass being able to deal damage on a regular basis and Morganna relying on creeps to keep sustained an agressive Cass who uses her creeps to block Dark Binding properly and lands successive Noxious blasts followed by Twin Fangs while either zoning or farming with Misama can force a morganna to go OOm or lose the lane entirely. The issue is when Morganna hits late game her spell sheild blocks a good portion of damage, as well the utility of her ultimate and her Dark Bindings makes her a huge threat. Cass is a strong laner with great early and mid game control. Her late game damage is also quite nice, but her skill cap is considerably higher. Meaning each Noxious Blast has to land, every Misama has to splash over the right area because Cass needs to be able to use Twin Fang as often for a majority of her DPS in a teamfight. Factor in the melee range ultimate (Still super strong) and you've got a champion that needs excellent positioning and focus to properly make use of her skill set for her team... [/quote] I was already taking into account that if you play cassiopea you know how to damn play her. Quite frankly I understand people saying cassiopea needs a skilled player, but quite frankly she's natural for me, I've rolled faces with her from the very 1st try while I still don't get amazing results with s called ez mode casters like brand or Vlad (old OP vlad). Cassiopea adapts to a playstyle that is so very different from common caster playstyle, I don't think she's THAT hard tbh, I think she's for caster players because she's bassically a constant damage instead of a burst damage. [/quote] I fail to see any continuity in your response.....I was merely agreeing that Cass is a solid early game counter to Morg, but towards mid and late game when Black Shield has a lot more damage protection Cass falls off against Morg in some ways.... [/quote] You won't be soloing morg lategame, it will be teamfights, her shield is gonna fall fast[/quote]

[quote=CelticChampion][quote=ZioSerpe] [quote=JEFFY40HANDS] [quote=ZioSerpe] [quote=JEFFY40HANDS] [quote=PsiGuard] [quote=ZioSerpe] I think her best counter is [[cassiopeia]] since she can farm at par and destroy her shield with [[noxious blast]] and [[twin fang]] [/quote] That depends on the skill of the players. [[Morgana]] has better sustain and can shrug off most of Cass' harass since the damage isn't instant. Any delayed or DoT spells are easy to block with [[Black Shield]]. Of course if the morgana never dodges, she would end up losing. [/quote] Early game Cass has the advantage. Morganna's spell shield is broken rather easily and as far as I can tell the DoTs eat through the shield rather quickly too. It's a matter of paitence and timing. Both Cass and Morg can zone but Cass has short CD low mana (because of her passive) harass whereas Morganna has longish CDs with high mana costs. Her spell vamp is solid, but with Cass being able to deal damage on a regular basis and Morganna relying on creeps to keep sustained an agressive Cass who uses her creeps to block Dark Binding properly and lands successive Noxious blasts followed by Twin Fangs while either zoning or farming with Misama can force a morganna to go OOm or lose the lane entirely. The issue is when Morganna hits late game her spell sheild blocks a good portion of damage, as well the utility of her ultimate and her Dark Bindings makes her a huge threat. Cass is a strong laner with great early and mid game control. Her late game damage is also quite nice, but her skill cap is considerably higher. Meaning each Noxious Blast has to land, every Misama has to splash over the right area because Cass needs to be able to use Twin Fang as often for a majority of her DPS in a teamfight. Factor in the melee range ultimate (Still super strong) and you've got a champion that needs excellent positioning and focus to properly make use of her skill set for her team... [/quote] I was already taking into account that if you play cassiopea you know how to damn play her. Quite frankly I understand people saying cassiopea needs a skilled player, but quite frankly she's natural for me, I've rolled faces with her from the very 1st try while I still don't get amazing results with s called ez mode casters like brand or Vlad (old OP vlad). Cassiopea adapts to a playstyle that is so very different from common caster playstyle, I don't think she's THAT hard tbh, I think she's for caster players because she's bassically a constant damage instead of a burst damage. [/quote] I fail to see any continuity in your response.....I was merely agreeing that Cass is a solid early game counter to Morg, but towards mid and late game when Black Shield has a lot more damage protection Cass falls off against Morg in some ways.... [/quote] You won't be soloing morg lategame, it will be teamfights, her shield is gonna fall fast [/quote] that's where you run or flash in and use your ult and use the shield on yourself and snare someone while your at it and hope your team kills them so you live. You get the idea[/quote]

[quote=DuffTime]If they picked according to Hotshot they'd do themselves a favor, but instead they pick according to Elementz zzzz.[/quote]