7.4 Tier List + AMA

[quote=Bubicica][quote=Fat_fast]Can anyone tell me why [[annie]] support is the rage again? As well as Ad [[Ezreal]] mid, and while you're at it, what do you guys think of [[cho'gath]] mid?[/quote] Cause [[Annie]] is not a support. She doesn't support you at all. She's a mage. No heals, no shields, no tanking, no slow, no utility. The only thing she has is a stun. With that basicly you could say any character is a support, hell some are far superior to Annie. "Swain support", "Nocturne support" or "Twisted Fate support" to name a few. She's a burst mage, but for some reason (probably because she is faceroll easy to play) people bring her as support sometimes. Altogether, you are better off with more traditional support.[/quote]

[quote=Vapora Dark][quote=Bubicica][quote=Fat_fast]Can anyone tell me why [[annie]] support is the rage again? As well as Ad [[Ezreal]] mid, and while you're at it, what do you guys think of [[cho'gath]] mid?[/quote] Cause [[Annie]] is not a support. She doesn't support you at all. She's a mage. No heals, no shields, no tanking, no slow, no utility. The only thing she has is a stun. With that basicly you could say any character is a support, hell some are far superior to Annie. "Swain support", "Nocturne support" or "Twisted Fate support" to name a few. She's a burst mage, but for some reason (probably because she is faceroll easy to play) people bring her as support sometimes. Altogether, you are better off with more traditional support.[/quote] That's not true in the slightest. Annie's good as a support in lane because she has a stun and huge damage even without items, so you easily win trades, especially after level 6. She's good outside of lane for the same reasons, except her stun with [[tibbers]] is an AoE stun that will usually have a bigger impact on teamfights than even something like [[command: shockwave]]. The most important thing to take from this is that she doesn't need gold to be effective, and that's what makes every support. She's not your traditional "protect the carry" support, but she's very strong in other aspects.[/quote]

[quote=Bubicica]As I said, she's just as much of a support as TF is. Yes, you can play her that way, but it's not as effective as regular supps.[/quote]

[quote=Jovy]That isn't true. Just because she doesn't sustain the ADC (like say [[sona]], [[nami]]) and because she isn't a tank ([[leona]], [[braum]]) doesn't mean she's a worse support than any of them. She brings damage and utility to the table. TF doesn't because his stun isn't very reliable and because he won't do damage until he gets items, which he'd have to delay in order to buy [[sightstone]] and wards. And on top of the fact that he needs to buy wards and etc, he won't be getting money off of minions, so he'll be short on gold to begin with. Annie on the other hand has high base damages and good scaling, a strong stun and a lot of AoE damage (good because bot lane has at least 2 people at all times).[/quote]

[quote=Fat_fast]She has a huger AA range, AoE stun, and a tank self-buff, so no, TF is not even in the same league. But that is beside the point, I want to know is there some changes I was unaware off that make her a top pick again, since her popularity went down a bit back when riot introduced a nerf to her base damage. Also about AD [[ezreal]] and [[cho'gath]] mid... Is there an expert on this?[/quote]

[quote=Bubicica]Oh sorry, tought you were asking why do people get mad when you pick [[Annie]] as support, and not why her popularity went down. Well, good luck with her then![/quote]

[quote=Embracing]At a competitive level hitting skillshots is about reading the enemy player or forcing the enemy into choke points. The MS bonus may help in disrupting expected paths, but even so there's a limit to how beneficial that is. If you're a good enough player you'll be able to hit the skillshots on the target regardless of their movement speed unless your skillshots have significant delay in casting animation. An extra 200~300 damage is much more valued over the 7% movespeed imho. I'm not claiming that the item is bad - I just don't see how it fits into a standard mage build. And wtf is this discussion on Annie? You don't claim a champion is bad because she doesn't fit the archetype of a role - archetypes form around a select role and what is most effective in that role.. A "support" is not necessarily a champion that has heals or shields that "protect" the ADC or "helps the team." Ever since season three the definition of a support has been defined by how well a champion can benefit the team with a low amount of income. Champions like [[Nami]] and [[Janna]] are not just good supports simply because they can "heal" or "shield." It's because they provide utility to the team through disengage, peel, and followup CC. In the case of [[annie]] she provides a lot of pick potential with her burst damage and a really strong initiate with her ultimate that provides solid hard cc. This by itself is great enough utility for the team. That's not to say she has an extremely strong laning phase with her poke / all-in potential as well. Her weaknesses are immobility as she's prone to getting caught with no escapes.[/quote]

[quote=UnstoppableBacon]Where are people ranking Bard for the support role? I play a to of support so I was stoked to see a new support released. I bought the little weirdo and really want him to be good but he just seems meh right now. Thoughts?[/quote]

[quote=Lugignaf][quote=UnstoppableBacon]Where are people ranking Bard for the support role? I play a to of support so I was stoked to see a new support released. I bought the little weirdo and really want him to be good but he just seems meh right now. Thoughts?[/quote] I feel like he's good if he's allowed to do the roam for charms, but most people in soloq won't let him do any of it at all. They'll take the 2v1 and run with it, killing the ADC over and over.[/quote]

[quote=Jovy]I thought the problem was that so many people left to get the shrines rather than stay with the AD. They only give you 20 XP and you lose a lot more by leaving lane.[/quote]