Runes for Irelia

[quote=astrolia]I don't see how you can build a [[Trinity Force]] and think armor pen is "completely useless" on her with the [[Trinity Force]] proc only scaling on armor pen and your base levels. At the very least, take [[Weapon Expertise]]. :x Edit: And yes, I do build [[Last Whisper]] on her. When I build [[Trinity Force]], that is. TF/LW for killing or FM/WE for sticking. Depends on the game.[/quote]

[quote=JEFFY40HANDS]I go 21/9/0 on her. So I do get some ArP but it's masteries (6 flat+10%) not in my runes because stacking arp from runes+masteries IMO on Irelia isn't useful. I get more bang for my buck by getting the early AD. (IMO) Triforce otoh is primarily (in my mind) to abuse the sheen proc coupled with haiten+bladesurge. I let most of my damage come from my base stats coupled with the sheen procs+wit's end to deal a majority of my damage. Which is split between true+physical+magic. Couple all that with the natural beefiness and Im a monster.[/quote]

[quote=astrolia]I don't really understand your reply so I'll just rephrase myself. [[Trinity Force]] is a high synergy item on her because you can get 4 free procs with [[Transcendent Blades]]. So [[Trinity Force]] gives you the proc, and the proc damage is based on your base attack damage (not bonus), thus, the proc damage scales only on armor pen and the AD you get from leveling. You even say you get it to "abuse the Sheen proc". So how is armor pen -- whether it's [[Last Whisper]] or runes -- "useless" on her? I mean, you even take the armor pen masteries yourself.[/quote]

[quote=Hyogetaki Hisame]Well, I just played a game as Irelia with flat ad reds instead of armor pen, went 8/1/5 with 259 cs at minute 43, and I have to say that flat ad reds do work better than armor pen, Helped me farm really easily as I kept on farm with a Jax, I went double g per 10 items for further gold income. However I did notice a slight decrease in my ability to 1 v 1 anyone in early game, not enough to get me to use Armor pen reds again.[/quote]

[quote=PsiGuard][quote=JEFFY40HANDS] She's a bruiser who specializes in penetrating an enemy team's front line to focus down their carries. Last I checked the most armor a carry gets is once they get GA. [/quote] Flat armor penetration is more effective against low armor targets, not less. If we're still just talking runes, armor pen would be great for anti-carrying with Sheen/Triforce procs. @Hyogetaki: I would be wary about judging something so subtle with personal experience. The effect of items and mastery setups can sometimes be noticeable enough to judge by trial, but the difference between AD reds and Armor pen reds is (imo) too minuscule to compare in-game. Small optimizations are usually better discovered with math and theorycrafting over in-game trial.[/quote]

[quote=JEFFY40HANDS][quote=astrolia] I don't really understand your reply so I'll just rephrase myself. [[Trinity Force]] is a high synergy item on her because you can get 4 free procs with [[Transcendent Blades]]. So [[Trinity Force]] gives you the proc, and the proc damage is based on your base attack damage (not bonus), thus, the proc damage scales only on armor pen and the AD you get from leveling. You even say you get it to "abuse the Sheen proc". So how is armor pen -- whether it's [[Last Whisper]] or runes -- "useless" on her? I mean, you even take the armor pen masteries yourself. [/quote] You're over-valuing the words I'm using, or I'm not being clear with what I mean (or both). When I say "useless" I'm referring to the fact that matching ~10 ArP with the 6+10% is not necessary. I'm not saying ArP in the general sense of having it IS USELESS, it's STACKING it on Irelia, to me IS though. ArP IS USEFUL, IT CAN be useful on Irelia, BUT with the masteries you have enough for early game to take on people in top lane even if they are building heavy armor (because you have haiten style). I know sheen procs are based on base damage, the abuse comes in with properly rotating her cool downs so you have a proc on every ability. I'm not referring to them "dealing more damage" because of ArP it's that the proc is "spammable" on her. Does that make sense? To clarify it is simply my opinion that ArP from runes is not necessary on Irelia. I will refrain from using "useless" unless specifying exactly how I'm using the word (which in this case was most probably improper). @Psi: Yes I know that, where in the quote was I saying something different? I meant that coupled with their base armor+GA's 68 they usually sit around ~140? (Assuming those stats on the champion pages are correct). There is a plateau where flat ArP loses to %Pen but that's around ~205 Armor or so. What I was putting forth was that Irelia's mix of damage is enough to burst squishies like they were cherries. Nothing more than that. Unless I;m misunderstanding you horribly (which I might be). EDIT: What Psi says is true, the difference between ArP marks or AD marks is miniscule. My preference is that I have the flat AD. ArP does have it's strengths too, it's really what you feel comfortable with. It's not like we are debating stacking AP on her, IMO we both have general ideas (of how to play and or build her) of Irelia and our rune builds differ in a way that is truly unimportant. As for LW on her, if for some reason your entire enemy team has stacked ~200+ armor then as a 6th item it would make sense, then again 6th item on Irelia probably doesn't matter what you get, you've got a full build which means you;re either fed, or the game has gone on a ridiculously long time. Honestly getting to 6 item irelia has only happened to me 2 times and both times...I opted to go with a BT. I was fed, I was "unkillable" figured, "Hell might as well make the enemy team feel real shitty".[/quote]

[quote=GrandmasterD]AD helps for better last-hitting early-game which is very valuable whilst arp doesn't do that. Also, Arp isn't amazing when not stacked. Personally, I feel that AS marks are pretty good on her as well; as it works amazing with her [[Hiten Style]].[/quote]

[quote=Pølsemanden]i use AS marks, armor seals, scaling mr glyphs and MS quints - my support jungler page.[/quote]

[quote=A Chubby Baby][quote=RosePhoenix] But ArPen marks are kinda stupid I agree 100% with Moon's runes. [/quote] what you said.[/quote]

[quote=Silfatos]so in terms of attack speed runes which one the marks or quints?[/quote]