Which order should I learn these champions in?

[quote=DaDaDaKroon]I should say stay with Soraka as support or Sona and if u dont like both of those champions then go for Janna those 3 are the best support's. Why those 3? Soraka - Heal, Infinity Mana, Silence enemie's, Starcall reduce's their magic resist what could be usefull on 5v5 Sona - Good control in 5v5, Great heal, One of best ulty, Does good early damage, and +movement speed buff Janna - Ult could be Awesome on good timing does good early damage and late, Has slow and Great shield.[/quote]

[quote=PsiGuard][quote=jhoijhoi] Blitz & Nunu: Isn't good enough compared to Taric, Janna or Soraka. Why would you want someone playing a subpar champ like Nunu compared to someone with a global save like Soraka? [/quote] This is exactly where you're wrong. Nunu isn't sub-par. He's just as strong a support as soraka, sona or taric. I'd much rather have a nunu than a taric, personally. Obviously skill is a factor for the OP. Soraka might be an [i]easier[/i] pick for supporting, but that doesn't mean Nunu is sub-par. By the way I'm flipping through some pro replays and looking at their supports. The pros are a lot less regimented in their picks than some people think (especially since M5's tournament play, which really shook up the meta). I even saw a Jarvan and a Maokai support. Not to say that I support those picks, but it's not like they're all playing Soraka every single game. EDIT: Trying not to derail this too much. To the OP, I would recommend [[Soraka]] as a support simply because you can effortlessly make a positive impact on your team at all stages in the game. Sona isn't too bad either.[/quote]

[quote=Wayne3100]Yep, Psi is right. No offense Jai, but this is just not the way it works. It's not "Soraka has (global) heals, Blitzcrank doesn't, thus Soraka is better as a support". Saying a number of unconventional supports are "not good enough" also makes little to no sense since picking a support depends on a lot of things, like synergy with you AD, on what your team needs in teamfights, what lane duo you're up against etc. As a support player I can tell you [[Taric]], [[Soraka]], [[Janna]], [[Alistar]], [[Sona]], [[Leona]], [[Blitzcrank]], [[Nunu]], [[Lulu]] and quite possibly a lot more that I'm forgetting about are [i]all viable[/i]. Yes, generally [[Soraka]] is a safer pick, but that doesn't make her the best pick in all situations.[/quote]

[quote=jhoijhoi]Nunu's kit: - attack speed + movement speed buff to himself and an ally - slow - aoe nuke that can be interrupted by carelessness (moving during the channel) or a simple form of cc - self heal only that requires you to eat a minion, thus taking cs Taric's kit: - long range stun - aoe burst + armour buff - heal to self and ally - damage buff to self and allies Soraka's kit: - silence - heal + armour buff - aoe, low cost, MR reducing, spammable ability - GLOBAL heal Janna's kit: - knock up - slow - ad buff shield - aoe heal + push back How can you say that Nunu is not subpar? ESPECIALLY pre-30 when you can't trust your ad to do well? Even at my elo/normal elo I would not try and support someone as Nunu or Blitz. Even if I didn't live in Australia with 220 ping and didn't play on a 2 year old laptop that overheats.[/quote]

[quote=Lugignaf]Nunu is just optimal in less situations. Example: Versus/with a Vayne, I would value Nunu over quite a few other supports as he makes it a lot harder/easier to land the 3 silver bolt procs and makes ganks more/less likely to succeed because of his combination slow/speed buff. Also, his Q is nice for self sustain when the AD carry goes back as well as last hitting under tower which a few other supports have difficulty with. May I remind you that Nunu's ult has an 625 base damage at level 1 of it and his utility is amazing without items. Cait's another example because of her traps and the amazing power of her peacemaker along with it being hard-ish to hit.[/quote]

[quote=PsiGuard]We all know why the other supports are viable, so I'll just focus on Nunu. [quote=jhoijhoi] Nunu's kit: - attack speed + movement speed buff to himself and an ally [/quote] HUGE! At max level (you usually max it by level 9), that's MORE ATTACK SPEED THAN A [[PHANTOM DANCER]] and the same MS bonus too! [[Blood Boil]] gives a bigger offensive advantage than any other support I can think of, even Janna's shield. [quote=jhoijhoi] - slow [/quote] Ever tried to escape from a nunu? It's not easy, especially when he rushes a bunch of cdr. You don't need [[consume]] at all, so you can max this pretty quickly. Not only does [[Ice Blase]] deal a fair amount of damage, but your team gains a permaslow. Trying to evade aggression from someone like Vayne or Kog'Maw is pretty much impossible when they have blood boil and you've been slowed. [quote=jhoijhoi] - aoe nuke that can be interrupted by carelessness (moving during the channel) or a simple form of cc [/quote] I'll admit this isn't his best spell, but that's okay. Taric's ult isn't that terrific either. What you CAN do is use it for early skirmishes for inescapable damage unless they have flash up. Also draws focus off of your AD, which is always a positive thing. No one wants to waste a CC on a support, and you'd be surprised how much damage it deals if your opponent doesn't have a stun up. [quote=jhoijhoi] - self heal only that requires you to eat a minion, thus taking cs [/quote] You only use this for a bit of extra sustain in late game fights to help you tank. I don't even skill it until like level 13 or 14. Lugi, I really wouldn't recommend even taking a point in it. An extra point in one of your other skills is almost always more rewarding.[/quote]

[quote=jhoijhoi]You say Nunu and Vayne. I say Taric and Vayne, or Alistar and Vayne, or Janna and Vayne. Taric stun, Vayne Condemn. Alistar Q, Alitar W, Vayne Condemn. Janna slow/nado, Vayne Tumble, Vayne Condemn. I'm not saying Nunu is shit and should never be played ever. I'm saying that for someone who doesn't know which champions they should be learning to play, suggesting Nunu is better at supporting than a traditional, easy to play support, is a fallacy. From personal experience, kill supports fall off late game. Leona may land that stun and get their carry a kill - doesn't help late game when Janna just ults and resets the team battle. Nunu may be able to cripple the enemy AD and get FB. But he has no hard CC and in a teamfight, Soraka's 10 second cd silence is gonna screw over his ult. I could continue this argument for years without either side budging. I PERSONALLY don't believe Nunu is a better support than Soraka. I PERSONALLY believe Ashe is a good AD carry due to her slowing potential. I PERSONALLY believe that there are better AP casters than Heim. These are my opinions suitable for my level of gameplay experience, elo, ping and computer.[/quote]

[quote=PsiGuard]Lol, I loved Ashe even when everyone was saying she was better off supporting than AD carrying. Look at her now, she's not even an uncommon pick. Kill lane supports can fall off if their carry doesn't start snowballing the game. That's the point of a kill lane, to get an early advantage that you can abuse later. If a kill lane fails, the sustain support is probably going to be more helpful because the Jarvan/Leona/Blitz won't be able to abuse the lack of weak points in the enemy team. To clarify, Nunu is in no way a kill lane support. He's much more akin to Janna than Leona or Alistar. And I didn't say Nunu is a good idea to play as a low-level summoner [quote=PsiGuard]To the OP, I would recommend Soraka as a support simply because you can effortlessly make a positive impact on your team at all stages in the game. Sona isn't too bad either.[/quote] I was disagreeing with your assertion that he is a sub-par champion that doesn't fit in the current meta.[/quote]

[quote=Wayne3100][quote=jhoijhoi]I would never play Blitz or Nunu over Soraka or Janna[/quote] You should in certain situations :P [quote=jhoijhoi]How can you say that Nunu is not subpar?[/quote] Because the movement speed buff + attack speed buff has the same duration as it's cooldown, the "slow" you mention is actually a very strong poking tool that deals quite some damage and the fact that the ultimate [i]can[/i] be interrupted does not mean it always will, especially when making good use of the brush in bottom lane. It also deals damage when interrupted before channeling for the full 3 seconds. What happens if you put [[Nunu]] up against a [[Soraka]]? She'll most likely be able to heal his [[Ice Blast]] damage (poke) back and will be relatively safe, while also most likely winning a 2v2 fight since she heals her carry and gives him an armor buff while [[Nunu]] only increases the attack speed of his own carry (it depends a little bit on the choice of AD carry. His attack speed buff is quite strong but I don't think overall he and his carry would win it). Now what happens if we put [[Nunu]] up against a [[Janna]], a [[Lulu]] or any other support without heals? His [[Ice Blast]] damage (which has a lot lower cooldown than shields from the aforementioned supports) will chunk the enemy AD carry down and will most likely be combined with some auto-attacks from [[Nunu]]'s carry since he will also give him/her a movement speed and attack speed increase, which will inevitably mean his carry is quicker than the enemy carry and has a higher attack speed, winning the overall trade. After a while, either the enemy AD carry is simply low on health and zoned, or [[Nunu]] + carry will win the 2v2 showdown against [[Janna]]/[[Lulu]] + carry. How would [[Soraka]] do against [[Janna]] or [[Lulu]]? Fine, but she isn't able to exploit the fact that both of them don't have sustain. A [[Soraka]] can't run in and use an ability with as much damage as [[Ice Blast]] simply because she [i]does not have one[/i]. In the end, a [[Soraka]] lane would stay sustained and be able to farm easily, while a [[Nunu]] lane would poke the enemy AD and force them out of lane (note, however, that the choice of AD also influences this heavily) [quote=jhoijhoi]From personal experience, kill supports fall off late game. Leona may land that stun and get their carry a kill - doesn't help late game when Janna just ults and resets the team battle.[/quote] That's why you [i]don't pick[/i] a [[Leona]] against [[Janna]]. You pick [[Leona]] (or [[Blitzcrank]], for instance) against someone like [[Soraka]]. Poking her down will not work since she can heal herself, [i]bursting[/i] her down in one go is what works. [[Leona]] + [[Tristana]] or [[Blitzcrank]] + [[Miss Fortune]] would be able to deal with [[Soraka]] (note that both of these AD's are strong choices due to their heal reduction). If the lane works out the way it should work (a.k.a. both players don't make stupid mistakes, [[Leona]] manages to hit her E like she should and [[Blitzcrank]] manages to land the occassional Q like he should), your AD carry will get fed and it won't be a problem that you "fall off" late game (I'm not even sure whether I agree with you on that, but I'll leave it for now). [quote=jhoijhoi] - suggesting Nunu is better at supporting than a traditional, easy to play support, is a fallacy. - I PERSONALLY don't believe Nunu is a better support than Soraka[/quote] I agree with that because [[Soraka]] is probably a good pick in more situations than [[Nunu]], but that still doesn't make [[Nunu]] overall subpar as a support simply because it's situational. That was my point (and Psi's, I believe). ....Ok now I'm really off to bed, I was supposed to go to bed an hour ago x)[/quote]

[quote=Buranri]I started playing Taric as kind of a support, it's really fun. Great character... No one ever plays support in normals, so I find that having someone who actually wards and helps feed the carry makes games go a lot smoother. Any other supports I should try? I enjoy playing that role, but I like the supports that become a bit more damaging late game... I usually build Taric so that by the time we've hit the endgame, I have close to 3000 hp and can duke it out with most characters.[/quote]