CAC 1 - Part 2a - Role Discussion

[quote=Jebus McAzn]We can't build a character that "deals no damage", though. But we do NOT want a character that deals enough damage to just be played as a powerful ranged carry who can also cripple the enemy support. CAC 1 must be able to inflict some reasonable damage on the enemy team, but not as much as a dedicated physical carry. Since physical carries are usually item-dependent, how do we prevent CAC 1 from becoming a good carry? I suggest we make its laning phase weaker to discourage building CAC 1 like a carry. Perhaps make CAC 1 excel or at least be competent in a duo lane while being unable to hold up a solo lane well.[/quote]

[quote=TehGus][quote=Jebus McAzn] We can't build a character that "deals no damage", though. But we do NOT want a character that deals enough damage to just be played as a powerful ranged carry who can also cripple the enemy support. CAC 1 must be able to inflict some reasonable damage on the enemy team, but not as much as a dedicated physical carry. Since physical carries are usually item-dependent, how do we prevent CAC 1 from becoming a good carry? I suggest we make its laning phase weaker to discourage building CAC 1 like a carry. Perhaps make CAC 1 excel or at least be competent in a duo lane while being unable to hold up a solo lane well. [/quote] imo his average damage output should be around the same as Kayle's, if he's an AP Melee DPS, like I suggested. And Kayle's laning phase isn't that good, is it? Sorry about the excessive comparisons.[/quote]

[quote=mobrebel]>.< at non-existant ability to not compare to other champions for what we need.... Jebus, the only way we could stop CAC 1 from being a carry would be to make all ratios AP and have the debuffs based off of the AP. Basically, make the debuffs debuff more when there is more AP. But, you could also make the AP ratios slightly crappy(ex. .5 - .7 range) so that getting a TON of AP will not make CAC 1 be a mage carry. Of course, that being something that is not percentage... Also, Duo lane should probably be where CAC 1 works the best, seeing as debuffs should be helping teammates own enemies.[/quote]

[quote=caucheka]i completely agree that it should be a duo laner. as mobrebel said above me, a support works best when actually supporting an ally (in this case helping the ally by weakening the enemy)[/quote]

[quote=bguggs]I know it's not the ability thread, but I'm gonna list the thought that's in my head because it is the foundation for the role I'm thinking of. Here's kinda the current idea in my head: -Ranged/AP champ (nashor + guinsoo recommended kinda guy) -Passive: Stacking debuff, increased effect per hit (maybe like healing reduc or some kind of shield reduction) -Q: an activated on-hit effect (ricochet, frost arrows) that reduces... well something on hit with a +effect for ap -W: Escape/defensive ability -E: another on-hit activated ability on the next hit(siphon strike, blitz punch) with an aoe debuff around the target it hits (and perhaps a damage component) -R: Execution/Long Range initiation style move to start or finish killing the support. So this is a kind of fast attacking on-hit debuffer. He/she can spread aroudn attacks or focus a single target in a team fight. It's not really a ranged dps/melee dps/anything else. The champ has its own role-- debuffer. It's dmg is fine but not its purpose. It doesn't ever jungle or solo, it applies it effects so that its teammate can destroy the enemy.[/quote]

[quote=Read]I like Alahric and bguggs ideas. I would like for him/her to be ranged AP. It just makes sense. As well, on hit effects make it that much more dangerous for them to actually debuff. I think one of the best debuffs in game would be an AOE MS reduction. While its not a strong CC i think a spammable movement debuff could spell disaster for squishys. As well maybe like a crit chance siphon that will drain 10/25/50/75/100% of their crit chance from an enemy and give it to a team mate. Just some thought on debuffs.[/quote]

[quote=mobrebel]Well we are not to worried about skills right now, but Ranged AP or Support seems to be the best bet.[/quote]

[quote=Grog the troll][quote=Read] I like Alahric and bguggs ideas. I would like for him/her to be ranged AP. It just makes sense. As well, on hit effects make it that much more dangerous for them to actually debuff. I think one of the best debuffs in game would be an AOE MS reduction. While its not a strong CC i think a spammable movement debuff could spell disaster for squishys. As well maybe like a crit chance siphon that will drain 10/25/50/75/100% of their crit chance from an enemy and give it to a team mate. Just some thought on debuffs. [/quote] Ashe and Mundo have spammable slows and the only spell doom in situations that are already pretty much fucked up, but really, a spammable AoE slow? Only AoE slows I can think from the top of my head are Trundles pillar and Trynds scream which is pretty scary when you think about it. Oo[/quote]

[quote=Read]also chos spikes Karmas tether (sort of) and teemos shrooms are AOE slow. How about the ult is a AOE [[Exhaust]]. ^_^[/quote]

[quote=Grog the troll]Chos spikes main job is knocking enemies up, the slow is unnoticeable. Karma is a banana that isnt to be touched. Shrooms are an epic tale of victory not to be spoken of.[/quote]