Who counters Trundle in the jungle?

[quote=Xenasis][quote=DuffTime] 1; You're implying an awful lot with a statement like that Mr. Jungle, and you might want to consider the kinds of things you're implying with your words, or else you could look really silly when calling people out who are really advanced in a certain game like League. You're not the only one who knows when shit spawns, and who can kill the Blue Golem. 2; Obviously, that's why I'm laughing my ass off that people are talking about counter picking Trundle. You -cannot- counter what Trundle brings to the table. It's almost impossible to shut Trundle down enough to the point where Trundle can't contribute anything to a fight, because his most valueable attributes are debuffs and AoE slows. His damage and dueling capabilities are good enough (And that -can- be shut down to a certain extent), but are not the focus of his kit. [/quote] 1. You're implying an awful lot with that, too. Calling yourself "really advanced"? The fact that you think you can't counterpick a jungler amuses me. That has nothing to do with killing blue golem, don't change the subject. 2. Oh my god did you read ANY of my post? The counter to junglers like Trundle isn't to go in and duel him. That would simply be retarded. As you've said he's got a great kit. The best way to deal with him is picking a ganking jungler and ignoring him all together, whilst you get XP from ganks rather than your half-stolen jungle. It's like you skipped through it all and picked out parts you wanted, I don't even think you'll read this in honesty, if you do, tell me. Counterpicking doesn't have to be the same as counterjungling. You implied it was here - "It's a fool's errand to try to counter a skilled jungler, and a waste of time and effort. If you don't believe me, just watch SaintVicious' stream. I hate the guy, but he's damn near impossible to effectively counterjungle." "It's a fool's errand to try to counter a skilled jungler" "damn near impossible to effectively counterjungle." "And it's even worse to try to counter Trundle, what a silly idea. There's nothing to counter." Best way to counter a counterjungler would be ganking junglers. You get XP elsewhere and give lanes the advantage they need to coordinate ganks with them. Refer to the triad I posted in my post.[/quote]

[quote=omagma]1 - 0 to Xenasis.[/quote]

[quote=DuffTime][quote=Xenasis] 1. You're implying an awful lot with that, too. Calling yourself "really advanced"? The fact that you think you can't counterpick a jungler amuses me. That has nothing to do with killing blue golem, don't change the subject. 2. Oh my god did you read ANY of my post? The counter to junglers like Trundle isn't to go in and duel him. That would simply be retarded. As you've said he's got a great kit. The best way to deal with him is picking a ganking jungler and ignoring him all together, whilst you get XP from ganks rather than your half-stolen jungle. It's like you skipped through it all and picked out parts you wanted, I don't even think you'll read this in honesty, if you do, tell me. Counterpicking doesn't have to be the same as counterjungling. You implied it was here - "It's a fool's errand to try to counter a skilled jungler, and a waste of time and effort. If you don't believe me, just watch SaintVicious' stream. I hate the guy, but he's damn near impossible to effectively counterjungle." "It's a fool's errand to try to counter a skilled jungler" "damn near impossible to effectively counterjungle." "And it's even worse to try to counter Trundle, what a silly idea. There's nothing to counter." Best way to counter a counterjungler would be ganking junglers. You get XP elsewhere and give lanes the advantage they need to coordinate ganks with them. Refer to the triad I posted in my post. [/quote] 1; Reading comprehension mega fail. You can counterpick a jungler, but generally it isn't worth it. That was my statement. I was speaking specifically about Trundle when saying that it's almost impossible. 2; I read it, but who flippin' cares? Ganky junglers are the best -no matter what- right now, so that's a null point. I know you don't think so, which is so amusing to me, because it's so obvious that it's just hilarious. Fast clearing junglers are only good in the new jungle, because they get the EXP and gold and then ganks and get more EXP gold and then gank quickly. They gank often because they can power clear, and they still get a decent base level of gold and EXP. Counterpicking Trundle by picking a ganker is not actually counterpicking Trundle at all. It's just picking a ganker and using him the way he was designed. Null point. You should really be picking gankers in the new jungle regardless.[/quote]

[quote=Svingas]So are you guys all saying that Trundle is a bad ganking jungler because he seems like a strong ganker to me. Not always sure kills, but if you can land that pillar right they burn most of their spells in one gank. The point of my post and the thread is asking if you see that they have Trundle, who do you pick as a jungler who will be able to contribute to your team the most effectively and not get counter-jungled into uselessness.[/quote]

[quote=Xenasis][quote=DuffTime] You can counterpick a jungler, but generally it isn't worth it. That was my statement. I was speaking specifically about Trundle when saying that it's almost impossible. [/quote] So shutting down a jungler is, in fact, worse than not shutting down a jungler? Enlighten me as to why. Also please say how you can't counter Trundle by not being bothered by having your jungle taken and allowing your team mates to help against him? [quote=DuffTime] 2; I read it, but who flippin' cares? Ganky junglers are the best -no matter what- right now, so that's a null point. I know you don't think so, which is so amusing to me, because it's so obvious that it's just hilarious. [/quote] One player completely counters that argument entirely. Diamondprox. I don't worship him or whatever you may think, but clearly, his team won IEM, and he pretty much NEVER picked a ganky jungler. He was known for his Shyvana. Shyvana clearly has horrendous ganks. You're a fool to think ganks mean everything. You're deluded for even thinking ganky junglers are the best, I like how you don't give any reasoning for it but mock me anyway. [quote=DuffTime] Fast clearing junglers are only good in the new jungle, because they get the EXP and gold and then ganks and get more EXP gold and then gank quickly. They gank often because they can power clear, and they still get a decent base level of gold and EXP. [/quote] Nope. Farming junglers that duel well are basically the best right now. Completely shutting down a jungler is better than helping out a lane, usually. [quote=DuffTime] Counterpicking Trundle by picking a ganker is not actually counterpicking Trundle at all. It's just picking a ganker and using him the way he was designed. Null point. [/quote] Not quite. Trundle's play style SHOULD be aggressively counterjungling his opponent. If you're ignoring the fact that you're being counterjungled and it doesn't matter to you, then Trundle's niche is nullified. It's like having 50% MR in lane compared to someone with 25% MR, being able to ignore LeBlanc's burst more than the 25% MR guy, but ignoring that fact completely and saying LeBlanc still plays and bursts the same so it doesn't matter. [quote=DuffTime] You should really be picking gankers in the new jungle regardless. [/quote] Lol.[/quote]

[quote=Xenasis][quote=Svingas] So are you guys all saying that Trundle is a bad ganking jungler because he seems like a strong ganker to me. Not always sure kills, but if you can land that pillar right they burn most of their spells in one gank. [/quote] He's worse than quite a lot. He has no gap closer or hard CC. His pillar is great, and a Trundle with red is a force to be reckoned with, but compared to many other junglers WITH hard CC, he falls short imo. [quote=Svingas] The point of my post and the thread is asking if you see that they have Trundle, who do you pick as a jungler who will be able to contribute to your team the most effectively and not get counter-jungled into uselessness. [/quote] Ganking jungler. Rammus, Jarvan, Riven, etc.[/quote]

[quote=Phoenix0000ff]Lots of TL:DR here but I'm going to say again title of post suggests attacking enemy jungle on a 1v1 level. Some junglers can duel other junglers but not always a good idea and probably not a good way to think about jungling. You got 2/10 pieces to a match and I feel people are trying to draw conclusions. Wack a mole theorycrafting not strongk x.x Q: who counter's trundle in the jungle? A: 5 people I guess? But doesn't mean it's a deciding factor in a match.[/quote]

[quote=DuffTime]Xenasis there's no point to even argue with you because you clearly don't even have a basic understanding of jungling. Shyvanna clears the map so fast that she -does- gank well, even if each gank is not dramatic impact. Besides, her ganks are solid with red buff, and she can steal red and blue buffs so fast that it hurts the gank and lane strength of the enemy jungler. This will keep coming back to the strength of the gankers, and this might hurt your brain, but believe it or not, Shyvanna is a ganker because of her clear speeds. Because she can gank so often, every lane changes their play style to compensate for the threat of dragon bitch showing up anytime. That's map control via threat of GANKS, and it's because she clears so fast and is so mobile that she can be anywhere anytime. Your attitude is not founded in reality, you're not the jungle whiz you think you are, and you have no place speaking to me like my understanding of the jungle is below yours, when in reality, you've got a long way to go before your understanding of the jungle even comes close to mine. (And I don't even main the jungle kid) Seriously not wasting my breath on the ramblings of a jungle player who think he knows it all though. Sub par understanding of the game. Also, that bit about Trundle falling short isn't correct. He's just misunderstood and used incorrectly. Plenty of pros who understand him, like Saint and Jatt, use Trundle regularly and in tournament play.[/quote]

[quote=omagma]Duff, Your attitude is not founded in reality, you're not the jungle whiz you think you are, and you have no place speaking to us like our understanding of the jungle is below yours, when in reality, you have no idea. Wait, that sounded familiar....[/quote]

[quote=DuffTime][quote=omagma] Duff, Your attitude is not founded in reality, you're not the jungle whiz you think you are, and you have no place speaking to us like our understanding of the jungle is below yours, when in reality, you have no idea. Wait, that sounded familiar.... [/quote] Clever. Anything else you'd like to add?[/quote]