Off Topic - New MOBA Brainstorming

[quote=ianxplosion]So I've been working on a game design doc on paper for the last few months, moving from casual facebook wargame to tactical ARPG and now I'm strongly considering a MOBA format. I've got a few ideas I just want to get input from the community on, as well as ask for any suggestions as to what you'd like to see in your right-click-brawler. -Characters I'm torn between a detailed RPG-y approach and a less detailed take, both of which have very heavy player involvement in character creation and evolution. I'm hoping this will provide a (relatively limited) choice of models as well as get players invested in their character. T1 - Pick a race, pick a class, pick a specialization. Name your character. Race/gender offers cosmetic changes, classes are Tank/Melee/Caster, specialization would be your detailed in game role (assassin, tank, support, etc). You then save that character to one of X number of slots, and every game you play with that character progresses it further down it's spec, unlocking new skill options and a limited talent tree. Matchmaking would only select characters of the same level for combat, so you're not facing more OP skills with your freshly rolled dude. T2 - Instead of characters as we know them in HoN and LoL (and to a lesser extent, RoI?), each 'character' is actually a spirit that you as the player co-exist with, giving you that spirits abilities for the fight. You would model yourself, then during selection choose your spirit. Both methods would still show the opposing team what they're up against during loading. T1 would show your name, your class, and your specialization. T2 would show your name and your spirit choice. Then again, we could just go with the tried and true method of making hero units with a story. Idk. -Gameplay Can't stray too much from anything here. QWER, kill dudes, buy loot, get big, crush bads. One thing I want to involve in at least the 'Standard' map would be secondary objectives. More than just tempbuffs that involve killing one mob every 4-7 minutes. - The Obelisk - Located dead center of the map, this monolith provides a bonus to your team when activated. To activate the Obelisk, you must have a charged Runestone in your inventory. Runestone of Fortune - Gold increase for minion kills Runestone of Flight - 5% move speed increase Runestone of Tenacity - HP Buff You basically buy a runestone, which prevents you from gaining any minion gold while it's in your inventory. After X minion kills, it's charged, and you go channel it into the Obelisk. The presence of more enemies than allies disrupts the channel. Minor buffs, something to focus teamfights, a nice side quest. Might change, my basic idea is to give the team that's down a chance to get back up. - Also want to involve 2-3 map types at release, 'Standard 5v5', 'Capture the Flag', and 'Domination' Domination is in rough draft mode, but it involves spawning minions at points other than the spawning point. Gives the losing team more farm, but also invites minion BDing. Like I said, rough draft. -Features I want competition from the get-go. CTF and Standard leagues with readily defined seasons and metrics. This will probably be the most difficult part, but as my design is based on a dream that I don't consider being a reality... Set up a 'Team' of 8 players. Only those 8 players may play in your Scheduled Matches (5 at a time, obviously) the Conferences are based on timezone, due to match layouts. Once your conference is assembled, teams are assigned to brackets, and matches have a time limit to be played out (starting at a week and lowering as the finals near, I think). Winning team gets fancy skins or something for 2 weeks until the next teams are drafted.[/quote]

[quote=ianxplosion]Artifacts (Pay for Perks) Give me your thoughts. If you could buy an item for dollars that you could use (after earning the gold for it) in game, that was moderately better than another item available, would you do it? Say, 5 bucks got you 15% AS instead of the 10% for just about the same grind of gold. This artifact would be available for every character you own, under a shop tab labeled 'Artifacts', during the game. I also strongly considered a game where your heroes are actually figures from history Robin Hood Rasputin Joan of Arc Cleopatra Annie Oakley Vlad the Impaler Jack the Ripper Sherlock Holmes etc[/quote]

[quote=Jebus McAzn]An RPG/MOBA is something that's been lacking, unless I'm missing something. It would be interesting to have people mix and match skill sets to then do a 5v5 on the classic DotA map. If I'm not mistaken, that's not something you normally see, as MOBAs usually have pre-determined skill sets for each champion and all you're able to decide are summoner spells/runes/masteries/items. Still, it'd be hard to balance, but no harder than standard PvP RPGs.[/quote]

[quote=ianxplosion]That's what I'm thinking. I want more investment, with the same playstyles. At level one, when I see 'Ralph the Melee Tank' I know what Ralph is, and I know how to play against him. At level 10, when I see 'Ralph the Melee Tank', I want that fear of not knowing exactly what build Ralph has, what skills he's going to use. And Ralph doesn't know if he needs his CC, or his Magic Soaking Shield, or if he shoulda taken a Tanky DPS skill.[/quote]

[quote=Lugignaf]I want to see more on this concept. The rune idea is really good. It would require a [b]huge[/b] amount of strategy for both sides and a ton of people wouldn't know what to do with the stones once charged for a while. I'd like to see some other concepts because, [b]no[/b] game that I know of offers this amount of depth for both game and player.[/quote]

[quote=ianxplosion]My basic thoughts on MOBA as a genre: You need a short gametype. 15-20 minutes, maybe even put a 25 minute timer on it. That's CTF. To keep CTF short you either A-Give everyone levelups at the same time throughout the game, along with a gold stream (fastest, but less strategic) B-Make gold gains relevant to position near the flag. Flag carrier gets gold+++, guy who kills carrier gets gold++, people near the carrier get gold +. This promotes the 'get off your ass and win' mentality, as I don't want creeps in CTF at all. The jungle exists to ninja the flag and for buffs. If you're going to have your games last 45 minutes to an hour, they need to be VARIED. VARIETY. Strategy, and the ability to change it on the fly (Obelisks, consumables). Yes, a game can be a lockdown win for one team at 20 minutes, but it shouldn't be impossible for a comeback. Competition. This is PVP, winning means nothing without the ability to flaunt it. Nobody on the losing side enjoys having their ego crushed, but the level system ensures similarly skilled players (minus smurfs) will be pitted against each other until they are ready for the more advanced tactics. Revenue. I love P4P. Love the model, always have. Free to play is the way to go with this stuff, and I'm all for people who haven't spent a cent playing people who drop hundreds of bucks and coming out on top. But games need money, and the content has to deliver without being gamebreaking (See: Artifacts in post 2) for everyone involved, while still offering fun for people who DO spend money. The concept is really more RP-PVP than MOBA at this point, but I do love the Arena setup, and that's what I'm designing for.[/quote]

[quote=Adonikam][quote] The Obelisk - Located dead center of the map, this monolith provides a bonus to your team when activated. To activate the Obelisk, you must have a charged Runestone in your inventory. Runestone of Fortune - Gold increase for minion kills Runestone of Flight - 5% move speed increase Runestone of Tenacity - HP Buff You basically buy a runestone, which prevents you from gaining any minion gold while it's in your inventory. After X minion kills, it's charged, and you go channel it into the Obelisk. The presence of more enemies than allies disrupts the channel.[/quote] Absolutely love this idea. Makes holding the middle of the map worth it. Could probably have "lesser" obelisks on the top and bottom of the map (so that it's not just 5 people mid 24/7) [quote]classes are Tank/Melee/Caster, specialization would be your detailed in game role (assassin, tank, support, etc).[/quote] Can you do any mix of the two types? Examples; Tank-Support, Caster-Assassin, Melee-Support. [quote]Can't stray too much from anything here. QWER, kill dudes, buy loot, get big, crush bads. One thing I want to involve in at least the 'Standard' map would be secondary objectives. More than just tempbuffs that involve killing one mob every 4-7 minutes.[/quote] What about jungling, roaming etc? going to be the typical 3 lanes? [quote]Then again, we could just go with the tried and true method of making hero units with a story. Idk.[/quote] No. Personally I LOVE customization. (like the Icewind dale games, anything like that is AWESOME) Also, will you have things like runes and masteries? IF not will you have something of the same type? Keep this thread updated I'm really interested in this as I'm doing a games design and development course at Uni.[/quote]

[quote=ianxplosion]EDIT - When I say level, I am meaning the out of game character level. Gameplay still involves powering up your guy to put points into skills and rahrahrah. As far as what I want for the 'build a dude' setup, at level one, I would be a melee tank, with the 4 skills that go with a melee tank. I play 5 games with other level one people, and I end up at level two. Oh boy, I get a skill to choose from! - *Physical Damage enhancement on one of my already existing skills *A lifestealing melee hit that does magic damage *A support shout that leeches atk from nearby units and gives it to me and mine - And so on and so forth. Each level for your character out of the game provides advancement opportunity of some kind, letting you specialize your character in a unique way. I'm toying with the idea of a mastery system, or a rune system, or a talent tree, but I don't want to pile TOO much on. Having ~20 different builds WITHOUT factoring in items is good enough. In my head, I want to be able to build my character pure tank, buy pure DPS items, and become a hybrid that way. I also want to be able to build my character as a hybrid, and then use items to fill in my role as the game evolves. As far as the Obelisk goes, I want it to initiate teamfights, without controlling the pace of the game. Once it's been used, it's out of commission for a while, which is when whoever used it should be using it to its maximum potential (ie - winning). Then, when it repops, you've got the big teamfight mid. Let's say you wipe the whole enemy team....do you pop the obelisk, or do you make that push that could get you the win? Having 3 would just make games take longer as people try and get all 3 Obelisk buffs all the time. Yeah, I'm thinking 5v5 will be 3 Lanes with a jungle. Of course, I'm also thinking 2 standard maps and 2 CTF maps, but I only have one of each drawn up at the moment. The CTF maps are crazy twisted, and that's mainly because I want the best CTF matches to have people saying 'Oh my GOD, I just dashed into that bush, juked out the other side, ran around and still caught it, with 18hp!' As far as jungling goes, I want it to be basically an optional lane. I want the guy in the jungle to be able to do it almost as easy as the people in the lane. I'm also considering some new play mechanics to the jungle that might actually change the map layout temporarily, but that's crazytalk.[/quote]

[quote=caucheka]well heres a thought, why don't you deal away with the classes idea then? just have 4 basic skills, and as you level up your account? you would be able to replace or buff those skills, then on the loading screen just tell what kind of skills. because the way you just mentioned it a tank could be focusing on skills that add damage, that doesn't really make him a tank if hes focusing on damage. plus it doesnt have to be a big description, just something minor. like q and w are offensive skills e is a defensive skill and r is a utility. there would probably be more buzzwords than that but its just an example. oh and also you mentioned races, but then mentioned that it was only a cosmetic thing? eh i dont really like that idea. i'd suggest going with minor stat bonuses, that way it'd be more diverse a game.[/quote]

[quote=ianxplosion]Well, to be a tank you'd have to be a Tank. And in the Tank tree, you can pick tanking abilities, and minor damage abilities. You'd have to be able to pick an off tank build, there's no way having a whole tree devoted to tanking abilities would work. To the same end, melee and casters have damage mitigation, but not to the point of a tank (who can shield allies, not just themselves) I always hated that about tanks in LOL - they initiate, but if they're straight tanks, what's to stop me from just killing the squishies first? Tanks should soak damage and also provide support in some form or another, not just through items. I don't like making races give stat bonuses, because then each race is pidgeonholed into a role and that's just not how things work. Even in a race of lithe, spear-hunting frog men (got one!) there are bound to be those who break the norm and become big bruiser types. The same with the overbearing rock people being able to produce casters. Each race has a 'skin' for each class, with players then being able to modify that skin through purchase. IE (Rockdude Race and the custom names for that Race's Melee, Tank, Caster classes respectively) Warrior Rockdude -Tribal Rockdude -Rockdude the Smith Guardian Rockdude -Fullplate Rockdude -Defender of Justice Rockdude Machinist Rockdude -Rockdude Tinkerer -Pilot Rockdude One of the Artifact sets I considered are 'Sigils of Race X' that provide stat boosts similar to what you describe, depending on your race this could be more health, faster run speed, a buffed passive, etc.[/quote]