Offtank/Tanky DPS Team, thoughts?

[quote=Axsiom]I was thinking of trying out a very tanky team that still has a great ammount of damage output. I was thinking of following the EU style of play, with 2 AP solos, ad+support bottom, and a jungler. This is what I came up with, haven't gotten to try it out yet. [icon=Swain size=25]Swain(Mid-lane) [icon=Rumble size=25]Rumble(Top Lane) [icon=Xin Zhao size=25]Xin Zhao[Bot Lane(Main AD Carry)] [icon=Trundle size=25]Trundle/[icon=Warwick size=25]Warwick(Jungle) [icon=Taric size=25]Taric(Support Bot lane, but would build AuraTank) I chose these for a couple reasons. [icon=Swain size=25]Swain has great lane dominance, has high damage output, and becomes tanky in teamfights due to his ultimate, even more so because of the buff to the heal recieved from champions. [icon=Rumble size=25]Rumble is extremely easy to win almost any lane with, has high damage output from little damage items, and has great AoE damage for teamfights. When doing this specific tanky dps/ap team, I would probably build on him items that provide defenses as well as damage, like [icon=Abyssal Scepter size=15]Abyssal Scepter, [icon=Rylai's Crystal Scepter size=15]Rylais, [icon=Zhonya's Hourglass size=15]Zhonia's, [icon=Rabadon's Deathcap size=15]Deathcap, [icon=Mercury's Treads size=15]MR or [icon=Sorcerer's Shoes size=15]MP Boots, and [icon=Banshee's Veil size=15]Banshee's. This way he would have high HP, MR, and a sufficient amount of armor. Of course, Taric will have an [icon=Aegis of the Legion size=15]Aegis and[icon=Shatter size=15]Shatter's passive, so in teamfights rumble will have enough armor to not be ripped to shreds by an AD carry. [icon=Xin Zhao size=25]Xin Zhao imho has the best laning(for a tankyDPS) and synergy with Taric being the support, reason being, I don't thing Jarvan or Udyr have enough damage output to really carry as an AD. He also has a huge amount of damage output and survivabillity from his ultimate and base stats. You would build him the same way you do as jungle Xin, although, I would buy a bit more damage than the traditional xin, or else he wouldn't have the damage output needed lategame. [icon=Trundle size=25]Trundle in the jungle would be my favorite for this team, because, 1) He is my favorite champion, 2) He has a faster jungle than warwick, and doesn't need red buff or lv6 to succeed in a gank, therefore his ganks come earlier, and 3) He is amazing at pushing towers, destroying tanks, and controlling his jungle [icon=Warwick size=25]Warwick is also another great pick, he stays healthier than Trundle when jungling, and has a better initiator than trundle from his ultimate, however, I just think Trundle is better for this team composition [icon=Taric size=25]Taric support bot lane is the best for this team comp. His [icon=Shatter size=15]Shatter aura makes his team tankier, or he could activate it to reduce the enemy's armor. He has a 1-2 second stun from [icon=Dazzle size=15]Dazzle, which is a great initiator on ganks or teamfights, and is easily chain cc'd. Lastly, since Xin is building tankier than most AD Carries, Taric's [icon=Radiance size=15]Radiance and the [icon=Aegis of the Legion size=15]Aegis aura will make up for it, to a point. Lastly, of course, Taric has his heal, [icon=Imbue size=15]Imbue, which heals for a good amount without any AP whatsoever. Lugignaf brought up the point that this doesn't give enough disruption CC. Here's an alternative to the above list. [icon=Swain size=25]Swain(Mid-lane) [icon=Cho'gath size=25] Cho'gath (Top lane) [icon=Jarvan IV size=25] Jarvan IV(Jungle) [icon=Xin Zhao size=25]Xin Zhao[Bot Lane(Main AD Carry)] [icon=Taric size=25]Taric(Support Bot lane, but would build AuraTank) [icon=Cho'gath size=25] Cho'gath is better off in top lane rather than in jungle because he is unreliable when it comes to ganking, it is very easy to dodge the knock up, he's slow, and he needs red buff for any other type of CC besides the silence. He is, and always has been, a very dominant laner because of his survivability in lane, and his burst damage early on. [icon=Jarvan IV size=25] Jarvan IV is a very good substitute for the other junglers for exactly what Lugignaf pointed out, the other junglers lack a reliable form of CC, plus, jarvan adds two more forms of CC, his AoE knock up, and his wall. Not only this, but his flag will increase his teams armor and damage even more on top of [icon=Shatter size=15]Shatter, [icon=Radiance size=15]Radiance, and [icon=Aegis of the Legion size=15]Aegis. I'm open to any critisism, just be sure to provide a reason for what you believe. I would love any suggestions that may improve this team composition/idea. EDIT: Just thought of an idea. Instead of Xin Zhao, I wonder if [icon=Wukong size=25] would be a good substitute, he has his AoE knock up. However, since I've never played him, I'm not sure how reliable he is in terms of damage.[/quote]

[quote=Lugignaf]You have very little CC and really wonky amounts of damage. I would put someone like [icon=Udyr size=25]Udyr in the jungle.[/quote]

[quote=Axsiom]Very little CC? I have swain's AoE snare, rumble's two slows, one being an AoE, trundles AoE slow/wall or warwicks disable, taric's stun, and xin's AoE slow and knock up. trundle/warwick's cc have an actual range to them, udyr needs to melee to use his stun. I did think about Udyr, honestly, but he doesn't bring enough to the team, he has his stun which gives him MS, which is his only gap closer/CC. Trundle contamination is his gap closer, which gives him MS, AND cc reduction. His CC is a wall and an AoE slow all in one. Warwick's gap closers are his blood scent and the ultimate, which is also his cc. Warwick's ganks are so much better than Udyr's also, because of his ultimate.[/quote]

[quote=Dotter]I think Jarvan would fit in better since he has tons of CC, which some of the other champions don't. (At least not as much AoE CC.) the main problem I see with this is the lack of burst, since most of those have sustained damage, at least if you compare them to AP chars as Brand, Veigar, Annie etc. Also the lack of a ranged carry to poke and push towers. It might work well, but could also be a problem, I dunno :p[/quote]

[quote=Lugignaf]Here's the thing. Swain's AoE snare is the only real reliable thing you have. And, it's only reliable if he's the same speed or faster. Taric is a stun and, I completely missed that initially, lol. By CC, I meant Disrupting CC like stuns, silences, knockups, ect. I would throw either Jarvan or Cho'Gath into the jungle to give you more CC then.[/quote]

[quote=Axsiom]I aggree with you completely about my lack of burst damage, Xin being my only form of it. Jarvan's great amount of cc is a good point, maybe I can put him in the jungle over trundle/ww, or take my alternative with nunu+jarvan switchting out for Rumble/Trundle or Warwick. EDIT: Good idea with cho'gath lugignaf. Should he lane with nunu/trundle/ww jungling, or should i sub him out for a jungler with jarvan in lane?[/quote]

[quote=Lugignaf]Either jungle or solo lane. He does fine in both.[/quote]

[quote=Axsiom]Edited original post, also realized both cho'gath and jarvan add a bit more to the teams burst damage, how do you like my second option of a team?[/quote]

[quote=Temzilla]NO MORDEKAISER? BLASPHEMY! But really, i would rate Mordekaiser as a better solo top than Rumble, and swain isn't a great mid because the current meta puts burst casters in mid, the only kind of caster that is effective against swain, maybe Cho? I would recommend a Lee Sin Jungle. I would also recommend someone like Yorick or Udyr bot with Taric if you're going to force a tanky ad down there. So final line up is... [icon=Mordekaiser size=64] [icon=Lee Sin size=64] [icon=Cho'Gath size=64] [icon=Yorick size=64][icon=Udyr size=64] [icon=Taric size=64] Cho'Gath/Morde build Tanky AP, Lee Sin/Yorick builds either Atmogs or Trinity Tank, and Taric builds Tanky+Auras. Team fights would be pretty rough, you would probably rely on a good rupture, but Cho'Gath's Ruptures are pretty easy to bait. The only problem with tank teams is AD Carries just tear you apart if they are left alone, you have to really lock them down in teamfights.[/quote]

[quote=Axsiom]Why would I sub out xin in bot lane? he has an AoE slow/jump, and AoE small nuke which gives him bonus armor, and a knock up, that on top of his damage is so much higher than udyr and yorick, and synergizes with Taric greatly, better than udyr, and so much better than Yorick. Mordekaiser scales poorly with AP and has no CC at all, I wouldn't sub anyone for him. Lee sin is the only suggestion I would take, because he can give Swain blue every time excluding the first blue buff. However, he's doesn't have the utility trundle has or the effectiveness warwick has, and not nearly enough utility as jarvan, with the team buff, aoe knock up that reduces armor, and the wall. EDIT: On the Rumble < Morde topic. Rumble dominates his lane just as well as morde, and at the same time provides something for the team, a skillshot slow and an AoE DoT nuke/slow, plus scales a lot better with his AP than morde.[/quote]