Thank you
But looks like your comment is on the old build. Is mobafire showing the old build still?
Anw I still have Rylai's Crystal Scepter on the build. Mostly for the slow though and yes it is expensive but to me is worth it. I hope I can prove it with screenshots soon:P
On your second point (I am happy about it) but on the rework i added DFG for the extra gold and cdr (extra spell always too) although I always try to find a way not to use it.

Hi deserterlol !

First of all, let me tell you that I do not agree with most of the decisions you took for building your veigar (for instance, clarity), as I consider there are some other options which are more viable/efficient, etc. However, most of your picks are acceptable, and therefore I have no complain about them.

Thus, I am here for two purposes : question one of your item picks and defend your point of view of not taking DFG on veigar.

Let's start with the item I do not agree with : rylai's scepter.

This item is awfully expensive in comparison to the AP it brings on veigar (amongst the worse AP/Gold ratio you can find). It's also your first item, with no item to sustain your mana early game, which makes extremely reliant on the blue buff and on clarity. I suggest you take some mana regeneration items for the early game like Chalice of Harmony or two Doran's Ring.

But you may have decided that it wasn't your job to provide a guide that would look exactly like a copy of the two top rated guide, because, after all, creating a guide is about bringing some new stuff to the table. And also, what would be the point ?

Yet, my major concern about rylai's scepter isn't the AP ratio, it is the fact that you pay for a useless passive. Yes, I consider it useless and I'll try to explain why : You max the stun quite quickly, therefore you reach a 2.25/2.5 stun very soon. The slow of rylai lasts for 1.5 seconds.
That means that usually, the slow from your baleful strike or you primordial burst will end at the same time the stun ends, so no 35% slow will take effect... The only one spell that will land and have an effect is dark matter, which has a slow of 15% as it is AoE. That means that in the best case, he'll be slowed by 15% during 1.5 seconds, but in reality it would be closer to .5/1 second.
And 15% slow isn't a lot !

I guess your idea of picking rylai is based on the increased survivability it provides. However, an athene's unholy grail, provides you with 40 MR, and if you add some runes of MR, you'll reach 82 MR. And then, the 500 HP gain (which you get around level 13) is inferior to the 52 MR increase in terms of survivability against AP casters. And you'd have a lot of mana regen, so you wouldn't need clarity. So I don't think rylai is the best option, but I'll let you be judge about this.


Second point : DFG is not as awesome on veigar as it seems. This goes in your favor, be happy about it ^^.
I'll try to explain why by taking the example from the guy above, saying that DFG would do 1200 damage. It's true, it would do such damage. But have you considered the damage veigar does by himself ?

Quick thing, I usually reach 600 AP BEFORE completing my 4th item, that is, with only the blasting wand required for it. Your opponent should be around his 4th item too. which makes it so that he doesn't have much MR, if he went for HP stacking and AP. (RoA or rylai, boots, and rabadon)

So how much does veigar deal with his combo : around 600 * 2.8 + 500 + 320 + 260 = 2760 ! (before MR). And that's without taking into account the AP the enemy has, so more than 3000 HP !

Now if you take 30 MR into account, it goes down to about 2300 HP, if you add an ignite, or if you simply have more than 600 AP, you one shot the enemy, and that's a beefy enemy we are talking about!

Therefore on most AP champions, no DFG is required to one shot the enemy during mid game. In late game it can be different due to the increase of MR on the carries. But then it's all about the amount of AP you have and about how confident you are in killing the enemy in one combo.

So DFG : Not as awesome on veigar as previously thought.

Finally rePublished :)
I think you' like the changes.
All comments welcome

I'm still waiting for people that gave this build a try. (I've found it works at duo lane too btw) Anyone?

I agree with the comments. A DFG is absolutely necessary. In my opinion, a kage's lucky pick early on can be a great cheap item that offers ability power and some gold generation til you start getting those one hit creep waves. Also, I disagree with clarity purely because his passive usually gets the job done for me, but that is very much personal opinion ;) I find the option of a Rylai's Crystal Sceptre fairly interesting. I'm getting the kind of vibe that suggests that you prefer not to be a glass cannon, which is great if you die a lot. You are doing a good job, but just thought I'd throw up some food for thought! +1

+Rep if I helped XD

I have to agree that clarity helps early game, but with the right items you won't use it late game especially if you're getting blue buff. Personally I like a little more MagPen and would get that through runes. But hey, good job. +1

How to make people understand that they have to read the whole guide and not just look the icons before they think something is not good...

P.S. I always have time to auto attack. (Damn!):D

Flash is so much more important than clarity. Clarity gets obsolete after few items, and you should be getting blue from junglers after early game.
Flash is basically a must get for squishy mages like veigar.

You really wanna start with boots and 3 pots for dodging the enemy skill shots and for sustain in lane.

I won't go too much into DFG because ppl already told you, but it also gives CDR, which is very good on veigar. Also, if enemy has 2500 HP and you have 600 AP, DFG alone would do 1275 dmg, before magic resist.

ROA isn't the best item, because first of all, Veigar is very weak early game, so building a high cost item will make Veigar more behind in lane, slowing down your ROA and all the item behind.

I suggest that you get 2 doran's rings as it provides the mana regeneration and health Veigar needs early game.

Lich Bane is not good for Veigar, because late game, you won't have many opportunities to auto attack, you want to use ur burst and stay behind safely tucked in. Also it's way too expensive and can be used for better items.

You really need some defensive items, such as QSS,Zhonya's or Banshees, according to the enemy.

I hope you read the items section completely before saying Rod of Ages is bad.
Because I explain everything there including the Deathfire Grasp as a substitute.
But still whenever I try this build (with roa) I can kill anyone with "just" my 3 spells.
I will add to the guide Deathfire Grasp as a substitute for Lich Bane too so we can keep Rod of Ages and have the fourth "spell" many prefer as a good option.

Anyway I'll still be playing veigar all week to do more tests.
Thanks for commenting.:)

*I hope some try it as it is to see why I like this build and then tell me here what you think specifically about playing with Deathfire Grasp and without it*
I won't post for a while to see the responses and see if first item needs to change.
But I have to say again please read guide or try the build before bashing Rod of Ages :).

Its a nice start, but you NEED a DFG. Without it your combo ability plumits in comparison to a veg that does.

i have Deathfire Grasp as a substitute for Rod of Ages if you read whole guide but I'll test it more times. thanks for your comment!:)

The main problem with this build is (A) No Deathfire's Grasp, the problem with not having this, but taking this out of the build means that the enemy AP carry might not necessarily die. The point of Veigar is to just wreck the opposing AP carry, and without a Deathfire's Grasp it's not very easy. (B) Rod of Ages on Veigar isn't very good on him, if you want something for mana, an Archangel's Staff is much better for that purpose. The rest seems fine, +1 from me, have a good day!