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lol at that screenshot. for one thing did you ask each player if you could put their opinion on the forums? they are pms - ie private. at least black out their names.
second learn to ask questions with less bias. a simple "what were your thoughts on the inhouse balance" was all you needed, not,
"do you think they were imbalanced or was it just team setup?" "don't you think evil overreacted?" "do you REALLY think that teams were imbalanced" - you are giving them the answer you want in your questions. why should we expect anything else?
regarding the overreaction part, it's hard to not get mad when i am getting flamed. sorry. unless you are a football coach or my parents i tend to retaliate when i am getting insulted. im not trying to be some big tough guy but that's how i am. sorry i didnt bow down to the hivemind that is "nobody is ever wrong" mobafire.
speaking of flaming you've already been banned once for it and i had you on my ignore list from a soloq game before you even started joining mobafire chat. i hope mowen did her homework.
second learn to ask questions with less bias. a simple "what were your thoughts on the inhouse balance" was all you needed, not,
"do you think they were imbalanced or was it just team setup?" "don't you think evil overreacted?" "do you REALLY think that teams were imbalanced" - you are giving them the answer you want in your questions. why should we expect anything else?
regarding the overreaction part, it's hard to not get mad when i am getting flamed. sorry. unless you are a football coach or my parents i tend to retaliate when i am getting insulted. im not trying to be some big tough guy but that's how i am. sorry i didnt bow down to the hivemind that is "nobody is ever wrong" mobafire.
speaking of flaming you've already been banned once for it and i had you on my ignore list from a soloq game before you even started joining mobafire chat. i hope mowen did her homework.
EvilDice wrote:
let me start by saying that i am not saying that this guy should no longer be a host. people make mistakes, people can learn. i would also like to apologize to the other players, because it probably ruined their fun too. they arent usually like this trust me =).
teams were completely unbalanced. two PLAT TEAMMATES duolane top against the only plat on the other team while our bot lane cant even AA the tower 2v1.
i type in chat "sorry but these teams are completely unbalanced" and moon gets hostile as always, pisses me off and starts a **** storm. lesson to you moon. when you harshly attack someone who has an opinion, they tend to get mad. them getting mad does not make them a child, and rebutals such as "just shut the **** up and get over it" do not help you win an argument. can we ban this toxic ****head from inhouses already? i wasnt really mad i was just telling him my opinion. i guess i cant do that without being a "mad ****ing child". watch the vod of the game and you can see that i was pretty calm the entire ****ing game.
also please dont call me "butthurt". i've *****ed before about balance as a caster.. ive *****ed before about balance when i won. because i lose i am butthurt? sorry, guess i can't want any good games.
i am a pretty chill guy... i think anyone on mobafire that has played some normals with me can attest that i am a pretty chill guy. i play league because its so easy that i dont really have to think about playing it, i can just relax. it's hard to stay calm when i get flamed for stating an opinion.
message to a couple other players in mobachat. stuff like "GUYS, ITS OK LETS GO SMOKE WEED AND BE HAPPY HAHAHAHAHAHA 420 l0l" also does not do anything. it is playing off a legitamate issue that i feel should be addressed. arguments are not bad things. arguments where one side is flaming and the other side is trying to make a point do tend to be bad things.
finally a message to the host. your reply to the imbalance was "guys i asked you 3 times whether or not teams were balanced." it is not my job to hold your hand and help you balance teams. i am the player, not the host. if the PLAYERS balanced teams there would be no point to having a host. the host would become someone who simply invited people to the games. balancing is YOUR JOB AND YOUR RESPONSIBILITY. saying "i asked" does not make it ok to have imbalanced teams. i dont know how in the world you think that two teammates that are plat, a gold, and two more ranked players are equal to one plat, two golds, and an unranked.
when a QB throws an interception to a WR who is covered, and the QB says "well he told me to pass it to him" who are people blaming? THE QB. when the president asks his cabinet what he should do, and it doesnt work out, he's not going to go "well i asked the cabinet THREE TIMES". he's going to take the blame.
if you are going to get a title on MOBAFire i expect you to do your job. i am not here to hold your hand. im here to play the games. in all honesty i didnt take one look at the teams or the chat before the game started, i expect when i play an inhouse for teams to be balanced. it's not my job to babysit a host. if it is i would like an "inhouse player" title to be added to my account as well as a set of rules for me to maintain my title as "inhouse player", as apparently it is my job to balance teams.
also was not invited to join the next inhouse (not that i wouldve) when mooninites was. example of host acting on emotion and not out of fairness. what is he going to do when he rages (i hear he does this frequently)?
also there are a couple other players who pm'd me and said they agreed. i'm not gonna say their names or anything but they can vouch if they want to.
i hope the host improves (i think it was just a mistake and mishandled), and if he doesnt i hope he is gone. there is no reason to keep the bar low for something that is supposed to be balanced and fun.
i hope mooninites is gone. how this guy has started *****torms 24/7 both on the forums and ingame, has been banned from mobafire more than once, and is still allowed to play inhouses is beyond me.
VOD here if you want it: http://www.own3d.tv/dicetherice/watch/897355
trust me boy, you don't know what hostile is. I said you were given the opportunity to object to the teams, if you really have a problem with reality then I don't know what to tell you. sL Anomaly gave everyone an opportunity before the game started to say whether or not they thought teams were balanced. Obviously you chose not to, which is your problem. If you really think I harshly attacked you, then I suggest you get tougher skin, I'm amazed that you've actually managed to play this game if you're that soft. Obviously you're irrationally upset over something which literally EVERY SINGLE PERSON WHO PARTICIPATED IN THE INHOUSE TONIGHT (including the casters) disagrees with you. I went back to watch the replay, from Darahas stream (good commentating by the way), to rewatch the game. The only thing you said before 20 minutes was "=)" when you killed vayne. It wasn't until around 22 minutes that you said that the teams were imbalanced. I think the point Incapacitate is making is that you never really said anything 22 minutes about balance, and it's around that point you guys started losing. Watch Darahas' cast, he's a neutral point of view, and he basically says what everyone is thinking, Vayne is a hypercarry late game and she got to late game early.
I guess I'll take the "24/7 *****torms" thing as a compliment, I didn't realize I had such an impact on the community. Am I a jackass, sure, fairly often, am I nice to people, do I talk long walks on the beach with them and discuss our favorite starburst flavors? No, and I'm sorry to disappoint if that's what you expected out of me. But in all honesty, you're quite right that I am a jackass, but that comes with being blunt. I have this strange habit of telling people what I think and it sometimes comes off very negatively. See the problem is, I don't deal with ******** very well. I don't really like it when people come up with excuses or these bull**** reasons why the lost or why this or that is unfair. Life isn't fair and I'm sorry it's taken you I guess 16 years now to realize this (I'm assuming your 16 because thats what I've heard). There was no way to make that game completely balanced, there's no way to make any game completely balanced, it comes with the nature of the game; there's winners, and there's losers. You got outpicked in champion select and we had a vayne who got to late game. If you go back and watch Darahas video, a neutral point of view, he says it wasn't an issue of balance it was an issue of a hypercarry getting to that stage in the game, and thats what it was. Thats all it was. Your bot lane did fail a little, but the only reason morde was able to do so well is because Lee Sin ganked effectively, aside from that you didn't really lose top, jeffy didn't really lose mid, and your bot lane lost because of effective ganks. From what I saw, no one on your team agrees with you. Phil Collins told you to get over it, jeffy made it sound like he thought the teams were pretty balanced, and even glayde said the teams were balanced it was just the way the lanes were set up. Even a neutral shoutcaster, Darahas, said it wasn't an issue of balance. I'm sorry but no one agrees with you and thats the brutal truth. Am I **** for saying it? No, but maybe I said it in a way that wasn't so friendly. I guess I'm sorry I didn't say it in a way that makes you feel all cuddly and warm inside, but thats just not how I do things.
___________________________________
So I decided to take a look at the chat log just to get your biased out of the way, this was said in game between all players. I also watched your video for another approach.
20:31 - EvilDice - sorry but this balance was ****
20:43 - Mooninites - you had a chance to say something
20:47 - sL Anomaly - I asked everyone. "It's fine"
20:53 - Mooninites - It's your responsibility too
20:58 - EvilDice - I wasn't paying attention. It's the hosts job to balance. Not the players
21:13 - Mooninites - seems like a you problem
21:15 - EvilDice - You put a plat duoq bot
21:16 - Mooninites - have gave you an opportunity
21:31 - EvilDice - so you are saying its my job as a player to balance the teams. ok
21:55 - Mooninites - no, I am saying he gave you an oportunity to object to it
22:05 - sL Anomaly - I did ask....
22:06 - Evildice - that's not the point
22:12 - sL Anomaly - if these are okay
22:20 - Evildice - I expect the teams to be balanced
22:22 - Evildice - I don't want to have to babysit. the host
22:26 - Evildice - it's not my job
22:29 - sL Anomaly - two golds and 1 diamond
22:31 - sL Anomaly - we have two plat 1 silver
22:41 - Evildice - ?
22:45 - Evildice - I am not diamond
22:51 - sL Anomaly - 2.1k. o plat
23:04 - Evildice - two teammates. that are plat
and thats all I got from darahas stream, he exited before the game ended. I don't remember much else specifically aside from telling you to "shut up and play".
I don't know about you, but when I read the chat they seemed like pretty rational responses to your issues that you brought up.
Thanks for the Signature MissMaw!
Well based on what I've read in this thread I don't think Evil's point (Hosts should manage balance) is wrong in any way o_o
In a professional environment players should not need to worry about balance. If they do it generally is the host's problem. Ofc this isn't a professional environment but since we are trying to make it better we should try to aim for professional behavior, which is why evil came here to post.
That's all I got from the thread
Am i missing on sthn o_o
In a professional environment players should not need to worry about balance. If they do it generally is the host's problem. Ofc this isn't a professional environment but since we are trying to make it better we should try to aim for professional behavior, which is why evil came here to post.
That's all I got from the thread
Am i missing on sthn o_o
Incapacitate
<Member>
<Member>
First of all, EvilDice is welcome to his opinion and we should give him the benefit of the doubt that he thought the game was unbalanced from the beginning and just chose not to complain until later. It is reasonable that he would not want to demoralize his team from the beginning by saying they had no chance if that was his opinion.
I feel like taking in the fact that Moon is not gold like you listed the teams were fairly balanced. You maybe could've switched some around to lean it towards EvilDice's team but that might not have necessarily been better. It should be taken into account that anomaly and fluffy play/lane together often so they should be counted as a little better than just "2 plat" (idk how often you guys play bot lane together but there's something to be said for synergy). Teams were obviously not a certain loss from the start.
You also have to keep in mind that we have 10 people to work with and not a million like the LoL Servers. There's only so much we can do and the host will try his best to make it as balanced as possible. We strive for as evenly matched games as possible, but even with balanced teams 20 minute surrenders happen depending on how the game goes. It seems like they tried a brutal strategy that paid off and that you had to take the brunt of the pain for; I know it sucks but it happens.
Part of what you and others mentioned is just simply the lane matchups. Since the plats were all in the same lane and it was 1v2 you didn't get a chance to carry your team like you were intended to. Sometimes if we have a large disparity between the lowest and highest ELO / games played etc ("skill") it's worth asking what lanes those players are going to to make sure it's not a downright stomp, but in doing so we're restricting player's freedom to try a role/champion they may want to practice / get advice on. So, I prefer not to do that but it can be worth it. If you feel like the players in a game call for this situation you could suggest it to the inhouse host.
I am of the opinion that if unbalanced teams makes you this upset you should probably pay attention to the team balance before the game starts. Hosts can learn better balance through suggestions and see trends in what people think is "fair." I also think it's not fair to say because anomaly asked people their opinion of the balance he wasn't doing his job. In fact I encourage hosts to ask people how they feel because it's worthwhile to get a gauge of the player's feelings and it helps to avoid bad sentiments after the game (as we see happened when you didn't state your opinion of the balance before the game started and were then upset with the results).
I hope this clears things up.
I feel like taking in the fact that Moon is not gold like you listed the teams were fairly balanced. You maybe could've switched some around to lean it towards EvilDice's team but that might not have necessarily been better. It should be taken into account that anomaly and fluffy play/lane together often so they should be counted as a little better than just "2 plat" (idk how often you guys play bot lane together but there's something to be said for synergy). Teams were obviously not a certain loss from the start.
You also have to keep in mind that we have 10 people to work with and not a million like the LoL Servers. There's only so much we can do and the host will try his best to make it as balanced as possible. We strive for as evenly matched games as possible, but even with balanced teams 20 minute surrenders happen depending on how the game goes. It seems like they tried a brutal strategy that paid off and that you had to take the brunt of the pain for; I know it sucks but it happens.
Part of what you and others mentioned is just simply the lane matchups. Since the plats were all in the same lane and it was 1v2 you didn't get a chance to carry your team like you were intended to. Sometimes if we have a large disparity between the lowest and highest ELO / games played etc ("skill") it's worth asking what lanes those players are going to to make sure it's not a downright stomp, but in doing so we're restricting player's freedom to try a role/champion they may want to practice / get advice on. So, I prefer not to do that but it can be worth it. If you feel like the players in a game call for this situation you could suggest it to the inhouse host.
I am of the opinion that if unbalanced teams makes you this upset you should probably pay attention to the team balance before the game starts. Hosts can learn better balance through suggestions and see trends in what people think is "fair." I also think it's not fair to say because anomaly asked people their opinion of the balance he wasn't doing his job. In fact I encourage hosts to ask people how they feel because it's worthwhile to get a gauge of the player's feelings and it helps to avoid bad sentiments after the game (as we see happened when you didn't state your opinion of the balance before the game started and were then upset with the results).
I hope this clears things up.
AP Twisted Fate | AD Carry Kog | Support Sona
teammates are a big deal. when six and i or xai and i play in the same game in an inhouse we are NEVER on the same team. we aren't even teammates but we know and trust each other so well that if we get on the same team it isn't fair.
sorry if i was wrong about moon being gold. i checked his profile and found a gold border and also hes 1488 on lolking so i assumed hes gold.
if anything that should be treated closer to gold than it is to silver. who was the silver on our team? jeffy? he was 13/12 last season.
I am of the opinion that if unbalanced teams makes you this upset you should probably pay attention to the team balance before the game starts. Hosts can learn better balance through suggestions and see trends in what people think is "fair." I also think it's not fair to say because anomaly asked people their opinion of the balance he wasn't doing his job. In fact I encourage hosts to ask people how they feel because it's worthwhile to get a gauge of the player's feelings and it helps to avoid bad sentiments after the game (as we see happened when you didn't state your opinion of the balance before the game started and were then upset with the results).
I hope this clears things up.
i've said this multiple times already, but i was antagonized. i think from mooninite's chat log you can see that "seems like a you problem" and (later) "shut up and play" are not neutral comments. above that looking at the chat log i dont even see where i was out of line with my comments. not one time did i personally attack anyone on the other team while being flamed myself. i don't see why when i am getting *****ed out i am expected to roll up into a fetal position and cry for my mommy. what i said wasn't even that bad and not even CLOSE to overreacting, as the rest of the community has me pinned as some raging *******. others can attest that i was antagonized and mowen already knows this.
amid comments after the game of "SHUT THE **** UP YOU ****ING CHILD" i still never insulted or attacked anyone (besides saying that the host didn't do his job) but apparently since i disagree im the bad guy. idunno man.
Well based on what I've read in this thread I don't think Evil's point (Hosts should manage balance) is wrong in any way o_o
In a professional environment players should not need to worry about balance. If they do it generally is the host's problem. Ofc this isn't a professional environment but since we are trying to make it better we should try to aim for professional behavior, which is why evil came here to post.
That's all I got from the thread
Am i missing on sthn o_o
mooninites, incapacitate and mowen have yet to address the most important part of my post, and that is that it's the host's job to balance, and the players job to play. im not quite sure why this is. have we established now that if a hosts asks "hey guys is this balance ok" that they are immune to criticism? i just want to know what i am working with here.
trust me boy, you don't know what hostile is. I said you were given the opportunity to object to the teams, if you really have a problem with reality then I don't know what to tell you. sL Anomaly gave everyone an opportunity before the game started to say whether or not they thought teams were balanced. Obviously you chose not to, which is your problem. If you really think I harshly attacked you, then I suggest you get tougher skin, I'm amazed that you've actually managed to play this game if you're that soft. Obviously you're irrationally upset over something which literally EVERY SINGLE PERSON WHO PARTICIPATED IN THE INHOUSE TONIGHT (including the casters) disagrees with you. I went back to watch the replay, from Darahas stream (good commentating by the way), to rewatch the game. The only thing you said before 20 minutes was "=)" when you killed vayne. It wasn't until around 22 minutes that you said that the teams were imbalanced. I think the point Incapacitate is making is that you never really said anything 22 minutes about balance, and it's around that point you guys started losing. Watch Darahas' cast, he's a neutral point of view, and he basically says what everyone is thinking, Vayne is a hypercarry late game and she got to late game early.
we were saying that in champ select, and i knew the game was basically over when our 5th pick said the only support he owned was soraka, after i had offered to trade for ezreal to help my team out. how does a gold player only own soraka? how did he only have 1 gp10 and mercs at the end of the game? you sure THAT wasnt 3s? he certainly didnt play like a gold player, our bot lane did absolutely nothing. when you die to ganks due to lack of wards and can't touch the tower against a very mediocre 2v1 champ then there is a problem with game balance. period. the game was over when vayne got a zeal, because she was still somehow outcsing ezreal with 2 deaths. not lategame items, a zeal. nothing more.
also combined this botlane was completely unresponsive to jeffy or i on vent and did not say a single word in vent all game. seeing as he was on the hosts team the game before, this shouldve already been known and accounted for in the balance. two teammates on the same team where the host is one of them is just straight up stupid and i hope it never happens again. give me sixsonatas or xaioli in that game and we wouldve had a much different outcome. hell give me an sl (as support) for the soraka and the game is close. i dont even know who anyone on my team is except jeffy.. who you can trust is also important for balance. four mobafire regs vs two? two teammates vs 0? you can do better. trust me.
the end result was that mid/top/bot all lost and the game was never very close. i did the best i could and i'm fine with having less skilled players in the inhouses, but this wasnt even close.
sorry if i was wrong about moon being gold. i checked his profile and found a gold border and also hes 1488 on lolking so i assumed hes gold.
if anything that should be treated closer to gold than it is to silver. who was the silver on our team? jeffy? he was 13/12 last season.
Mowen wrote:
I am of the opinion that if unbalanced teams makes you this upset you should probably pay attention to the team balance before the game starts. Hosts can learn better balance through suggestions and see trends in what people think is "fair." I also think it's not fair to say because anomaly asked people their opinion of the balance he wasn't doing his job. In fact I encourage hosts to ask people how they feel because it's worthwhile to get a gauge of the player's feelings and it helps to avoid bad sentiments after the game (as we see happened when you didn't state your opinion of the balance before the game started and were then upset with the results).
I hope this clears things up.
i've said this multiple times already, but i was antagonized. i think from mooninite's chat log you can see that "seems like a you problem" and (later) "shut up and play" are not neutral comments. above that looking at the chat log i dont even see where i was out of line with my comments. not one time did i personally attack anyone on the other team while being flamed myself. i don't see why when i am getting *****ed out i am expected to roll up into a fetal position and cry for my mommy. what i said wasn't even that bad and not even CLOSE to overreacting, as the rest of the community has me pinned as some raging *******. others can attest that i was antagonized and mowen already knows this.
amid comments after the game of "SHUT THE **** UP YOU ****ING CHILD" i still never insulted or attacked anyone (besides saying that the host didn't do his job) but apparently since i disagree im the bad guy. idunno man.
Embracing wrote:
Well based on what I've read in this thread I don't think Evil's point (Hosts should manage balance) is wrong in any way o_o
In a professional environment players should not need to worry about balance. If they do it generally is the host's problem. Ofc this isn't a professional environment but since we are trying to make it better we should try to aim for professional behavior, which is why evil came here to post.
That's all I got from the thread
Am i missing on sthn o_o
mooninites, incapacitate and mowen have yet to address the most important part of my post, and that is that it's the host's job to balance, and the players job to play. im not quite sure why this is. have we established now that if a hosts asks "hey guys is this balance ok" that they are immune to criticism? i just want to know what i am working with here.
Mooninites wrote:
trust me boy, you don't know what hostile is. I said you were given the opportunity to object to the teams, if you really have a problem with reality then I don't know what to tell you. sL Anomaly gave everyone an opportunity before the game started to say whether or not they thought teams were balanced. Obviously you chose not to, which is your problem. If you really think I harshly attacked you, then I suggest you get tougher skin, I'm amazed that you've actually managed to play this game if you're that soft. Obviously you're irrationally upset over something which literally EVERY SINGLE PERSON WHO PARTICIPATED IN THE INHOUSE TONIGHT (including the casters) disagrees with you. I went back to watch the replay, from Darahas stream (good commentating by the way), to rewatch the game. The only thing you said before 20 minutes was "=)" when you killed vayne. It wasn't until around 22 minutes that you said that the teams were imbalanced. I think the point Incapacitate is making is that you never really said anything 22 minutes about balance, and it's around that point you guys started losing. Watch Darahas' cast, he's a neutral point of view, and he basically says what everyone is thinking, Vayne is a hypercarry late game and she got to late game early.
we were saying that in champ select, and i knew the game was basically over when our 5th pick said the only support he owned was soraka, after i had offered to trade for ezreal to help my team out. how does a gold player only own soraka? how did he only have 1 gp10 and mercs at the end of the game? you sure THAT wasnt 3s? he certainly didnt play like a gold player, our bot lane did absolutely nothing. when you die to ganks due to lack of wards and can't touch the tower against a very mediocre 2v1 champ then there is a problem with game balance. period. the game was over when vayne got a zeal, because she was still somehow outcsing ezreal with 2 deaths. not lategame items, a zeal. nothing more.
also combined this botlane was completely unresponsive to jeffy or i on vent and did not say a single word in vent all game. seeing as he was on the hosts team the game before, this shouldve already been known and accounted for in the balance. two teammates on the same team where the host is one of them is just straight up stupid and i hope it never happens again. give me sixsonatas or xaioli in that game and we wouldve had a much different outcome. hell give me an sl (as support) for the soraka and the game is close. i dont even know who anyone on my team is except jeffy.. who you can trust is also important for balance. four mobafire regs vs two? two teammates vs 0? you can do better. trust me.
the end result was that mid/top/bot all lost and the game was never very close. i did the best i could and i'm fine with having less skilled players in the inhouses, but this wasnt even close.
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