CAC 1 - Part 2a - Role Discussion

[quote=Jebus McAzn]The winner of our concept poll was Jet's Anti-Support Debuffer. [quote=Jet]o hey im having a go at this Name: Anti-Support, Debuff, DPS General Description: A squishy DPS damage dealer that synergises with team support and is designed to work with on hit effects to cripple the enemy team and their support, through applying mass debuffs to the enemy that affect positioning and regeneration. Justification: We have 4 strong support champions (Janna, Taric, Shen and Alistar) that once they get itemised, along with good player skill, they are almost impossible to take down while they provide excellent advantages for their team. This would allow for new team compositions, such as Carry/Mage/Support/Tank/Anti-Support which could bring otherwise neglected champions back into viability, such as Kayle, Sona, Soraka, Nasus, etc, by allowing them to have their undervalued effects on level with the enemy's output. This would bring some use to the useless items we currently have (by useless, I mean you cannot compare them to other items, such as Nashor's Tooth, Executioner's Calling, Malady). Additionally, bringing new compositions and stronger debuffing presence would be a strong counter to the current metagame of Tanky-DPS, and would allow for new metagames to be balanced around having a strong balanced composition than having a team full of powerhouses with one strong tank and one support babysitting entire teams. Explanation: With this champion you would be able to pick on their team forcing their support to waste skills undoing what you just did to that enemy, debuff them making them more vulnerable to your team's damage output and allow yourself, as this debuffing DPS, to make laning, harassment and solo fighting much more effective for your entire team. Since you're going to be using auto-attacks to apply debuffs, as well as skills, on-hit items would synergise extremely well with this champion, allowing for more varied builds depending on what you need to counter and what your team would benefit the most from debuffing.[/quote] In this poll, we will be discussing the best [b][u]role[/u][/b] for our champion. A list of possible roles are: -Melee DPS -Ranged DPS -Magic DPS -Tank -Offtank -Support Also feel free to discuss the following characteristics: -Viability as a jungler -Viability as a roamer -Viability as a counter-jungler -Viability in lane - which lane(s) does CAC 1 excel in? This will simply be a [b]discussion thread[/b], where we will talk about the benefits and cons of making CAC 1 fit a certain role as opposed to the other. This thread will be followed with a role poll. Discuss![/quote]

[quote=Jebus McAzn]I'll start off the discussion by getting involved myself: This character is designed to make the enemy support's life as hellish as possible. Thus CAC 1 needs to be able to reap chaos in the enemy lines. As an anti-support, CAC 1 also needs to be able to hit most, if not all of the enemy team, possibly with on-hit effects and debuffs (as the concept suggests). Therefore I would like to suggest making CAC 1 either a [b]melee DPS[/b] or [b]ranged DPS[/b]. However, CAC 1 would not be able to match the damage levels of other dedicated DPS champs like [[Master Yi]] or [[Ashe]], but would instead deal hefty debuff crippling support. I feel that if CAC 1 was a melee DPS, it would be alright to have him/her be a jungler. However, CAC 1 should NOT be considered as a dedicated roamer or counter-jungler simply because CAC 1's role in the metagame already needs to be influential. If CAC 1 is a ranged DPS, I do NOT think we should make him/her viable as a mid carry.[/quote]

[quote=Grog the troll]So... Its a character that counters the enemy supports with the help of his own supports? If its that then wouldnt said character be rather situational?[/quote]

[quote=Jebus McAzn]Ideally this character wouldn't be centered around countering supports, but would be designed to spread panic and debuffs around the enemy team so that a support has a harder time dealing with it. CAC 1 doesn't need the enemy team to have supports or his own team to have supports to be successful. Fine-tuning comes later, but that's basically what this thread is about - getting the concept as precise as possible without determining skills.[/quote]

[quote=Trojan995][quote=Jebus McAzn] In this poll, we will be discussing the best [b][u]role[/u][/b] for our champion. A list of possible roles are: -Melee DPS [/quote] I think melee DPS would be best. Since it's an anti-support debuffer, this champion should be played a lot like an anti-carry, but...y'know, geared towards anti-support. I think this champion should be a lot like gangplank, where his/her damage skills are minimal, but his/her utility spells fill most of the slots. [quote=Jebus McAzn] Also feel free to discuss the following characteristics: -Viability as a jungler [/quote] If this champion is a melee champion but NOT a tanky DPS champion, then I don't think he/she should be a jungler, especially since his/her skills should be geared towards anti-support or carrying, not self-healing, lifesteal, or shielding, like some other junglers use. [quote=Jebus McAzn] -Viability as a roamer [/quote] This champion shouldn't be viable as a roamer because he/she should spend the entire time farming creeps for gold and exp, and despite the fact that 'debuffs' suggests that this champion might have some ganking potential/CC. [quote=Jebus McAzn] -Viability as a counter-jungler [/quote] This might be possible, only because some champions rely on buffs (Olaf, Udyr if you count his stance as a buff) to jungle. Being able to remove that could gimp them severely. However, if we're sticking to the ranged/melee carry theme, this champion wants as much CS as possible and shouldn't be prancing around in the jungle frequently, though maybe later on in the game. [quote=Jebus McAzn] -Viability in lane - which lane(s) does CAC 1 excel in? [/quote] I don't think this champion should be a strong laner - his/her virtue should be team fights, where all sorts of buffs and auras are hanging around, not in the lane. This champion should have some way to safely farm in-lane, however, whether it be long enough range to last hit safely, or a skill with low cooldown and long range. This champion shouldn't be suited to go up against a strong mid-laner, but instead should have some form of escape in either top or bottom lane (even if it's just flash/ghost or a high base movement speed).[/quote]

[quote=TehGus]From my point of view, these are some points I think would be great on him: - AP Melee DPS (with autoattack steroids -the said 'debuffs'- that scale with AP). Close examples are Kog'Maw and Kayle. - CAN jungle, but isn't really good at it (like Xin Zhao, maybe?) and has average ganking potential, but prefers staying in a duo lane over anything else. Can't really give an opinion on roaming and counter jungling.[/quote]

[quote=Grog the troll]I think I get the picture now, basically something like Trundle? Hmm... Since we already have trundle I hesitate to say that I want him to be melee ranged (+ I suck bananas with melee toons) but if s/he were to be a ranged toon his debuffs would have to be rather mild compared to if he was melee, besides, if hes centered around teamfights - which sounds awesome imo - he should have AoE skills and if you ask me, AoE, good range, debuffs and even a little dmg sounds like too much, thus melee range. Also I would love to see some counter-jungling potential which brings to mind some sort of radar/traps but once again it could be too much on a single toon unless he is squishy and his damage output is gimped big time. If he were to be a viable counter jungler he would naturally excel at roaming to some extent too.[/quote]

[quote=Alahric]Well this thread is extremely trivial, Jet already made the champion. But if anything let's make him able to the unexpected and reek havoc with a little carry potential in a supportive way. Since we already know he's DPS/Support, jungling and tanking is irrelevant. Survivability and whether he or she is going to be melee or range depends on the skill-set. Do you want [[Trundle]]? [[Gangplank]]? [[Katarina]]? or [[Tristana]]? Well, we don't want to make a clone so we shouldn't have the same concept. In conclusion it has to be a shady ranger; easy, safe, tactical and fitting. I'm thinking more like a Drow Ranger, then again with the supportive and chaotic concept applied.[/quote]

[quote=mobrebel]Ranged would be the best bet, but since it is all debuffs, it probably would be best if the champion did not do damage. Another option could be support, with the buffs being given to your allies. Namely, something like the closest one to you. Also, Alahric has a point. We do NOT want a clone.[/quote]

[quote=ShadowReign757]I was thinking ranged DPS, not a jungler, has counter-jungling capabilities, and mostly lanes. But as Trojan said, not too good in the laning phase.[/quote]