OTG's SoloQ Tier List (Patch 4.20)

[quote=utopus]Pretty sure amumu's just an ult bot, actually. If you build AP on him, he'll get chunked so quickly that the only way you'll be able to win a team fight would be if you landed a 4-5 man ulti before you insta died - which would make you an ult bot.[/quote]

[quote=GrandmasterD][quote=NicknameMy][quote=GrandmasterD]Amumu can stick around in tier 2, but low tier 2. His problem is that his late-game is nothing but having an ultimate, which is poor. On top of that, his itemisation is awkward and he's very, very, very prone to jungle invades.[/quote] WTH I got to read here? There is a reason why [[Amumu]] has and will forever have one of the highest winrates in solo queue. First thing is, many people underestimate [[amumu]] early so badly and pay for that, he has a fast clear with good sustain thanks to his E damage reduction. Of course, dueling is not really good, but he has some tricks to survive most situations. The main part for [[amumu]] is the lategame anyway, in which he shines. Calling him only an ult-bot is ridiculous, considering how high is damage is and how high it can actually scale. He can freely build between full AP burst and full tank depending on the situation he is in and a good [[amumu]] player will know when to get which. And [[amumu]] with at least some AP is definitly not only an ult-bot, he tears teams apart. The only time you would go for full tank if you can 100% trust your team, so basically, never. And if he gets fed early, oh my god, dat full AP build bursting down multiple carries instantly.[/quote] This entire post is filled with crap. [[Amumu]]'s damage doesn't scale since he doesn't build ap, and if he does, he dies instantly. His [[Bandage Toss]] is nothing but a glorified gap-closer as it's not a reliable stun in teamfights. All [[Amumu]] does late-game is ult, and if he doesn't get that on 3+ people, then you've lost the fight (assuming both teams are at equal strength). His E and W turn useless late-game, and his passive is not worth anything. His early-game is plagued with problems, going from a horrible first clear (time) to the fact that he can't duel anything. He can't win 1v1's, 2v2's, and he has no ability to gank smart or secure objectives such as dragon early. The fact that he makes it to tier 2 at all is solely because the communication in soloq is completely off and the fact that most people don't abuse the shit out of his early-game. Then, if he gets fed, he can build AP, but guess what? So can [[Elise]], and she snowballs a heck of a lot harder than [[Amumu]]. [[Amumu]] has a couple of severe flaws that make him overall a weak champion, who happens to fairly well in soloq because people aren't organised. However, I can guarantee you that good players/junglers will abuse the shit out of the fact that he cannot compete with the meta. Also, just the fact that a champion scales well with statistics doesn't mean they scale well into late-game; [[Lee Sin]] being a prime example of that. Stop letting your ability to worship underpowered champions cloud your judgement (assuming that's the case), because you're not helping yourself and other people with these worthless posts which cause newer players to adopt wrong ideas. P.S. Damage reduction =/= sustain and [[Amumu]]'s clear speed is low.[/quote]

[quote=Joxuu]I build [[amumu]] like a aggressive bruiser so that I can be useful in the late game. I just get [[zhonya's hourglass]] to survive after using the ultimate. It's pretty rare to see full tank [[amumu]]s anymore. Early game is a struggle to get into lvl 6 and hope to not get destroyed by enemy jungler. After the jungle item, his jungle clear is good but you need to find the right initiations until getting zhonya's. He is far from good. Has more weaknesses than strengths but it can be rewarding if you get mid game going on well. Conclusion in my opinion: Not good but not bad either.[/quote]

[quote=sirell]One of my Diamond I friends loves full AP [[amumu]] and he's mained it many times whilst smurfing on different accounts. He told me that it's great fun and works up to high-Gold/mid-Platinum and around that point, if you don't have any strong defensive items (I'm talking [[randuin's omen]], [[banshee's veil]], etc, not [[zhonya's hourglass]]/[[rylai's crystal scepter]]), then the teams turn on you and wreck you. In those circumstances where you don't have strong defensive items, it's all up to whether or not you can get a good ult off before you die and most times than not, you won't be able to get a good [[bandage toss]] off and you end up being useless or your team doesn't coordinate with you (cos soloq) and ends up getting aced anyway. In the tiers below that, you can literally all-in on anyone that's not full tank and wreck the enemy teams. No one knows how to counter-jungle an [[amumu]] and no one has a good idea of how he ganks either, which is why [[amumu]] seems good and is the gatekeeper of Bronze. Once you get to high gold/mid plat, full damage just doesn't roll any more. He said it himself, he gives up picking full AP [[amumu]] once it gets into mid-Gold and gives up on [[Amumu]] altogether past mid-Platinum. [url=http://www.lolskill.net/summoner/EUW/Fizzical]He's the 456th best Amumu player in the world, apparently.[/url][/quote]

[quote=sirell][quote=XeresAce]^ I never said zyra was stronger than morgana janna or nami? I never implied that zyra is better than these supports just because she can win lane against them... Btw, for future reference, Leona = zyra in lane. It's a matchup dependent on skill with a slight hint towards Leona's favor. Leona's E and Ult are also skillshots, nami's Q and ult too, janna Q... I don't see how that matters. Also, assuming her ult is up, zyra can counter-engage vs a leona pretty well later on in the game.[/quote] I'm saying why [[leona]] appeared to look weaker, but the matchup has still remained the same against [[zyra]] and that [[zyra]] has never really been particularly stronger than [[leona]]. [[zyra]] has a harder time defending against [[leona]] in comparison to her counterparts because all her abilities are skillshots. I wasn't comparing her directly to [[leona]]. [[zyra]] gets easily picked off by most high damage champion, whereas [[leona]] doesn't in their engages. As far as utility goes, [[zyra]] can provide pretty much a similar kind of CC that [[leona]] does, but [[leona]] is far more dominant in lane when played equally, just because [[zyra]] isn't like the top tier caster supports in the regard I mentioned before.[/quote]

[quote=Thatdudeinthecotton]OK, So [[gangplank]] is much closer to being tier 2 than tier 4 as this ranking suggests and here's why. Firstly and most prominently, unlike the majority of champions in the game, [[gangplank]] scales well with every stat available. AD, armor pen, crit, lifesteal, onhits all scale on [[[parrrley]]. Ap scales extremely well with [[remove scurvy]], but it also scales with armor and mr as both increase the "effective health" restored. [[raise morale]] Is stat aura in and off itself, that gives gp the highest base ms of all champions, meaning additional ms easily supplements his lack of gapcloser. His passive [[grog soaked blade]] scales with AS and mr-shred. Finally his [[cannon barrage]] scales hard with ap and (by extension) mr-shred. Because of this, the team doesn't have to build around [[gangplank]], [[gangplank]] builds around his team. Need a wall to eat enemy cc? build a [[spirit visage]] and chuck a couple points into [[remove scurvy]]. Need more aoe cc and damage? Grab a [[iceborn gauntlet]] and some cdr for [[cannon barrage]]. Need to shred tanks? grab a ghostblade or [[last whisper]] and go at it. And if we're talking about laning phase, lets take a look at his abilities: [[parrley]]: It a 625 range poking tool, with a 1:1 ad scaling + onhits etc. As far as poking tools go, thats pretty potent in a lane dominated by melee champs. +Even if one gets into a prolonged melee battle, it also acts as an auto-attack cancel, useful for squeezing in an extra hit.(that being said, gps play style is much more poke orientated than anything else) [[remove scurvy]]: At lvl 2 this is a 150 hp heal, which inadvertently, gives gp some pretty good sustain. Not to mention the cleanse seriously hurts laners who need cc to engage(eg: [[nasus]], [[kayle]], [[shen]]), Not to mention that it can remove nuisances such as silence. [[raise morale]]: 1 level in this puts gps ms above almost all other champions at 355 (without boots or masteries) a second level gives him the fastest passive ms in the game. Not to mention the active which is pretty damn powerful in both lane and teamfights. [[cannon barrage]]: Not great in duels admittedly, but gives gp a global presence, allows him to leave lane without fear of his tower being pushed down, and can be used to grab assists or make saves from across the map. This ability tends to be misused for the damage, when its much better used as a zoning/slowing tool. Iam not saying he's op, cause hes not, but he is good. His combination of poke,sustain and cc removal let him go even with a lot of popular mids such as [[ryze]],[[renekton]],[[Irelia]] and he contributes well in teamfights by building to the role necessary, and laying down large buffs for his allies with [[raise morale]] and debuffing the enemy with [[cannon barrage]].[/quote]

[quote=GrandmasterD][quote=Thatdudeinthecotton]OK, So [[gangplank]] is much closer to being tier 2 than tier 4 as this ranking suggests and here's why.[/quote] He shouldn't and here's why. [quote=Thatdudeinthecotton]Firstly and most prominently, unlike the majority of champions in the game, [[gangplank]] scales well with every stat available. AD, armor pen, crit, lifesteal, onhits all scale on [[[parrrley]]. Ap scales extremely well with [[remove scurvy]], but it also scales with armor and mr as both increase the "effective health" restored. [[raise morale]] Is stat aura in and off itself, that gives gp the highest base ms of all champions, meaning additional ms easily supplements his lack of gapcloser. His passive [[grog soaked blade]] scales with AS and mr-shred. Finally his [[cannon barrage]] scales hard with ap and (by extension) mr-shred.[/quote] Scaling with every statistic doesn't mean that a champion is good, in fact, it generally is the opposite. Also, GP scales poorly with armour pen, champions who scale with armour pen are those who have high physical damage by default (i.e. base damages) and GP has almost non-existing base damages. Movement speed boosts do not function as gap-closers, that's exactly why [[Draven]] is in a bad spot. You cannot do anything to proper gap-closers, nor can you catch up to those with high mobility. [quote=Thatdudeinthecotton]Because of this, the team doesn't have to build around [[gangplank]], [[gangplank]] builds around his team. Need a wall to eat enemy cc? build a [[spirit visage]] and chuck a couple points into [[remove scurvy]]. Need more aoe cc and damage? Grab a [[iceborn gauntlet]] and some cdr for [[cannon barrage]]. Need to shred tanks? grab a ghostblade or [[last whisper]] and go at it. [/quote] Gangplank is useless in a team scenario as he offers virtually nothing. Everyone in the game can stand in front of a morg binding, that doesn't make GP good or even remotely viable. [quote=Thatdudeinthecotton]And if we're talking about laning phase, lets take a look at his abilities: [[parrley]]: It a 625 range poking tool, with a 1:1 ad scaling + onhits etc. As far as poking tools go, thats pretty potent in a lane dominated by melee champs. +Even if one gets into a prolonged melee battle, it also acts as an auto-attack cancel, useful for squeezing in an extra hit.(that being said, gps play style is much more poke orientated than anything else)[/quote] This is literally the only thing GP has going for him, and it isn't even great. Many champions still beat him in all-ins and a good amount can just sustain through the poke, especially those who are popular. [quote=Thatdudeinthecotton] [[remove scurvy]]: At lvl 2 this is a 150 hp heal, which inadvertently, gives gp some pretty good sustain. Not to mention the cleanse seriously hurts laners who need cc to engage(eg: [[nasus]], [[kayle]], [[shen]]), Not to mention that it can remove nuisances such as silence.[/quote] Would be insane if it was on someone with play potential, but GP lacks that completely. It kinda allows him to be less trash as a melee carry, but he's no olaf who can at least make himself immune to it. The best thing is that it makes [[Warwick]] cry, but that's it. [quote=Thatdudeinthecotton] [[raise morale]]: 1 level in this puts gps ms above almost all other champions at 355 (without boots or masteries) a second level gives him the fastest passive ms in the game. Not to mention the active which is pretty damn powerful in both lane and teamfights.[/quote] Falls off soooo quickly. There's better champions with movement speed boosts and they are actual supports. The active also removes the passive part, which is a big trade off. [quote=Thatdudeinthecotton] [[cannon barrage]]: Not great in duels admittedly, but gives gp a global presence, allows him to leave lane without fear of his tower being pushed down, and can be used to grab assists or make saves from across the map. This ability tends to be misused for the damage, when its much better used as a zoning/slowing tool. [/quote] Completely inconsistent ultimate. Also it deals magic damage, thus doesn't scale, and the slow is pretty meh. The best part is that you can kill minions from any distance, but hey we got tp right? [quote=Thatdudeinthecotton] Iam not saying he's op, cause hes not, but he is good. His combination of poke,sustain and cc removal let him go even with a lot of popular mids such as [[ryze]],[[renekton]],[[Irelia]] and he contributes well in teamfights by building to the role necessary, and laying down large buffs for his allies with [[raise morale]] and debuffing the enemy with [[cannon barrage]].[/quote] He's not good, he's not even okay, he's terrible.[/quote]

[quote=OTGBionicArm][[Gangplank]] has a majority of issues keeping him from higher tiers tier. For instance, his laning is crap. His only redeeming quality in lane is his cheese poke with Q, but he's constantly torn on using it to harass or farm. And when you use it to harass you drain mana. Fast. Next there's the issue were he does zero damage unless you go full critplank. And when you go full critplank, you go full retard and die like a bitch. (cause you be squishy son and you get kited son). Lastly, his utility is less than great. His ult is great and about to be buffed but he's otherwise lacking in the team utility department. Even his E feels meh.[/quote]

[quote=utopus][quote=Thatdudeinthecotton]OK, So [[gangplank]] is much closer to being tier 2 than tier 4 as this ranking suggests and here's why. Firstly and most prominently, unlike the majority of champions in the game, [[gangplank]] scales well with every stat available.[/quote] One of my most favorite sayings that i like to apply to league, is that a little bit of everything, is a whole lot of nothing.[/quote]

[quote=Thatdudeinthecotton][quote=GrandmasterD] Scaling with every statistic doesn't mean that a champion is good, in fact, it generally is the opposite. Also, GP scales poorly with armour pen, champions who scale with armour pen are those who have high physical damage by default (i.e. base damages) and GP has almost non-existing base damages. [/quote] Yes scaling with every stat can be bad on champions and often is. That being said you dont illustrate why in this particular case. On the issue of armor pen, you build it for similar reasons as to why you'd build crit, so that [[parrrley]], which has a good base damage, hits harder (specifically when going against armor). [quote=GrandmasterD] Movement speed boosts do not function as gap-closers, that's exactly why [[Draven]] is in a bad spot. You cannot do anything to proper gap-closers, nor can you catch up to those with high mobility. [/quote] Your actually correct there, it doesnt work as a gap closer and it was stupid of me to say that. That being said it helps his poke-run-poke-run playstyle, making it harder for enemies with gapclosers to engage on him. [quote=GrandmasterD] Gangplank is useless in a team scenario as he offers virtually nothing. Everyone in the game can stand in front of a morg binding, that doesn't make GP good or even remotely viable. [/quote] With that logic you might as well say dr.mundos crap cause he offers no hard cc. The fact is gp can eat cc with little to no consequence, which is one of the reasons you get a tank to begin with. Speaking of team fights, [[cannon barrage]] is good for laying down a damage and slow aura on the enemy team .If you're trying to use it to kill a specific champion its useless, but the spread out damage is high. [[parrrley]] [quote=GrandmasterD] This is literally the only thing GP has going for him, and it isn't even great. Many champions still beat him in all-ins and a good amount can just sustain through the poke, especially those who are popular. [/quote] A said, its much better used for poking instead of allins, I admitted that. As far as popular champs that sustain through it, Id appreciate a few examples. Just wanna be on the same page as to whom you're talking about. [[remove scurvy]] [quote=GrandmasterD] Would be insane if it was on someone with play potential, but GP lacks that completely. It kinda allows him to be less trash as a melee carry, but he's no olaf who can at least make himself immune to it. The best thing is that it makes [[Warwick]] cry, but that's it. [/quote] To say it only effects one champ is pretty inaccurate. I mean it helps vs: jax, ireleia, swain, shen, rammus, pantheon, rengar, nasus, amumu, jayce, gragas, kayle, vladimir, malphite and many more. No its not as good as being tottaly immune to cc, but lets not forget that olafs ability is an ultimate that shreds all his defensive stats in exchange for raw ad. Thus having a very different purpose to this ability which is primarily used to stop an enemy sticking to one for too long. [[remove scurvy]] [[cannon barrage]] [quote=GrandmasterD] Falls off soooo quickly. There's better champions with movement speed boosts and they are actual supports. The active also removes the passive part, which is a big trade off. Completely inconsistent ultimate. Also it deals magic damage, thus doesn't scale, and the slow is pretty meh. The best part is that you can kill minions from any distance, but hey we got tp right? [/quote] Aside from [[zilean]] who offers a single target speed boost, and janna who offers a weaker speed boost, the only way to get such an aoe speed buff is [[talisman of acsension]] which has an area of less than half of [[raise morale]]'s. This allows one to almost always guarantee that they are going to affect their entire entire team with the buff. Also, even losing the bonus passive stats, gp still gains 24 ad and 13% ms from activating this ability. From my perspective, thats pretty good. Cannon barrage, as stated, is not used for the damage. Generally its used to control the enemy postioning before a teamfight, slow a group retreat or to dump on them when they are in a difficult to leave position (walls or turrets blocking escape). And yes, it can waveclear. But unlike tp it can be used to help other lanes without making a big commitment, or it can be used in combination with tp so that leaving lane wont cost you a tower. Simply put, I still disagree that he is a bad champion.[/quote]