So why does nobody play karma ?

[quote=recnib]Haha after all this explaining I think I might skip over her until I have more experience under my belt :D So now... FIORA !! >:D[/quote]

[quote=Hyogetaki Hisame][[Karma]], certainly one of my favorite supports and AP champions. Don't mind people who just outright say that she's useless, Karma provides both the strongest shield of the game with nice AOE damage AND a good percentage heal, making her extremely dangerous in late game where she can just use the mantra shield on one champion in the first line, the mantra wave on barely the whole enemy team if she's well placed, and finally slow enemies if they try to run away or speed allies in case you are retreating. The trick with [[Karma]] is to always build her AP with CDR, while a little tanky. Her damage and heal are already good early on to provide both sustain and harass in lane. Mid game, you will start to out perform most support champs since you don't only provide utility, but also a good amount of AOE damage to the equation. Late game, just wait for your [[Jax]], [[Irelia]] or any other late game monstrous bruiser to jump into the enemy team, shield him, and you've just dealt 464*5 = 2320 AOE magic damage to the enemy team ( no magic resist calculation, and this is in case you hit everyone while you have 230 AP, which is actually pretty low for a [[Karma]] who can easily reach the 400 AP mark), you then just wait until one of your champions is low on health before mantra healing your team, since the heal is a % one. Here's some random maths ( done with 230 AP champions at lv 18), showing how effective shields are : [[Soul Shield]] strength is 464, deals 2320 AOE magic damage in a 650 radius. [[Eye of the storm]] strength is 447, provides 50 AD to the shielded champion. [[Help pix]] strength is 418. [[Black shield]] strength is 516 but prevents magic damage only, prevents disables while the shield holds [[Prismatic barrier]] strength is 210,5, if it hits a champion twice, the effective shielding would go up to 421. [[Command: protect]] strength is 332, provides 30 armor and magic resists, hits for 249 damage. Naturally, in a real game, the champions will actually have different amount of AP, making [[Morgana]]'s and [[Lux]]'s shields the strongest if they are played AP. However, none of this shields will even come close to dealing that AOE burst that [[Soul shield]] provides, and both of them are less reliable as [[Black shield]] is useless against physical and true damage, while [[Prismatic barrier]] is a hard to land skill shot. By the way, to all Karma haters, keep on underestimating her, it helps me do crazy stunts and win unbelievable games.[/quote]

[quote=throatslasher]Karma is good at what she does, which is AoE. Strong points: Very dominant as an AP mid. Wins most matchups, about 80+% All her spells are AoE Late game, turns into a RIDICULOUSLY strong support for your ADC. 800 damage shield, 400 aoe heal. AMAZING wave clear, REALLY GOOD FOR TOWERDIVING. Karma chain is game-breaking. It's one of the best spells in the entire game. Weak points: Falls off extremely hard damagewise Needs to stack AP AND CDR. Hard to do. Uses 'ammo' (mantra charges) Squishy, no escapes Give her a shot. She's amazing, imo. You win a lot of lanes because people don't know how to fight karma. To harass, mantra a shield and shield one of your creeps if they get too close. Don't let them follow it up with damage on you since your shield is on cd. Shield poke poek peok peokpekepokepokepoke[/quote]

[quote=TheJohn][quote=Mikuroo] There are simply better picks then karma. Alot of people will defend karma and say that she is good and they can still win with her, but if we really wanna see whos viable, just look at the competitive scene. [/quote] Not at all. Just because the pros don't pick a certain champion, that means he/she isn't viable? The thing about "better picks" is how you play. I could be the worst Sona ever and say that she's bad, but I could be the best Janna player and say she's almost a instawin pick, but that's not how things work You just have to pick the ones you feel more confortable. I can easily win as Mordekaiser with Warmogs and Randuins, but that doesn't mean he's the best this or best that. People try too hard to copy the good players that they forget what's to have fun, to choose what you like to play as and win or lose. It's just a game[/quote]

[quote=throatslasher][quote=TheJohn] [quote=Mikuroo] There are simply better picks then karma. Alot of people will defend karma and say that she is good and they can still win with her, but if we really wanna see whos viable, just look at the competitive scene. [/quote] Not at all. Just because the pros don't pick a certain champion, that means he/she isn't viable? The thing about "better picks" is how you play. I could be the worst Sona ever and say that she's bad, but I could be the best Janna player and say she's almost a instawin pick, but that's not how things work You just have to pick the ones you feel more confortable. I can easily win as Mordekaiser with Warmogs and Randuins, but that doesn't mean he's the best this or best that. People try too hard to copy the good players that they forget what's to have fun, to choose what you like to play as and win or lose. It's just a game [/quote] 100% disagree. Some champs just have underwhelming kits. Not all champs are created equal. Heimerdinger is shit. Karma is poopy. She's high skill, low reward. Mordekaiser is kinda poopy. He's good at what he does, which is anti-carry, but he just doesn't do much. Morde is low range, shitty laning phase, low damage all game, easily focused, easily kited, no cc, etc. He just has so many problems, it's better to just pick someone else. He's a good pick against certain champs, like vlad, though.[/quote]

[quote=Babit]I love ap karma. Support karma not so much.[/quote]

[quote=Hyogetaki Hisame][quote=throatslasher] 100% disagree. Some champs just have underwhelming kits. Not all champs are created equal. Heimerdinger is shit. Karma is poopy. She's high skill, low reward. Mordekaiser is kinda poopy. He's good at what he does, which is anti-carry, but he just doesn't do much. Morde is low range, shitty laning phase, low damage all game, easily focused, easily kited, no cc, etc. He just has so many problems, it's better to just pick someone else. He's a good pick against certain champs, like vlad, though. [/quote] Sorry but I simply disagree with you, most champions are good and pretty balanced, [[Heimerdinger]], [[Karma]] and [[Mordekaiser]] are no exception, the fact that you can't do well with them only means you are not good with them, nothing more, nothing less. Karma excels at what she does if the player does it right, Mordekaiser too, Heimerdinger too. For Karma, her kit that you consider under powered is in fact really balanced for AP support purpose, strongest shield of the game with aoe damage, slow and speed buff, heal and aoe damage all work well with her.[/quote]

[quote=Anastasios][[Karma]] is fun. To me, it doesn't matter if she feels weak or UP. She is the second most fun champion i have played after [[lux]].[/quote]

[quote=throatslasher][quote=Hyogetaki Hisame] Sorry but I simply disagree with you, most champions are good and pretty balanced, [[Heimerdinger]], [[Karma]] and [[Mordekaiser]] are no exception, the fact that you can't do well with them only means you are not good with them, nothing more, nothing less. Karma excels at what she does if the player does it right, Mordekaiser too, Heimerdinger too. For Karma, her kit that you consider under powered is in fact really balanced for AP support purpose, strongest shield of the game with aoe damage, slow and speed buff, heal and aoe damage all work well with her. [/quote] And I'm going to disagree with you right back. What a champ excels at might not be very useful. Sure, heimerdinger excels at poke and zoning, but hey, zyra does it better, has higher damage, and WAY MORE CC. Sure, morde is tanky while casting spells, ok aoe, good single target...BUT WAIT! SWAIN DOES A BILLION AOE, AMAZING AOE CC, SICK SUSTAIN WHILE CASTING, GOOD SINGLE TARGET... If all these champions are perfectly balanced and just require equal skill, why is heimer played in like 1 out of 10000 games in 2300+ elo? Grats. Karma has sick support spells from mid lane. WAIT A MINUTE! AP JANNA! SHE HAS AMAZING DAMAGE, SHIELD, AAAAAAAAAAAND 2 FORMS OF AOE CC? WOW! THAT'S JUST AMAZING! HER SHIELD GIVES HER ADC A BF SWORD WORTH OF AD? WOWOWOWOWOWOWO! OH, AND SHE GIVES YOU WHOLE TEAM 3% MS? AND HER SPELLS DON'T COST AMMO? SIGN ME UP! Sorry for all the caps lock, but the champions you mentioned are NOT BALANCED. mord/karma/heim don't excel at what they do. there are other comparable champs that are way better at what you say they're good at.[/quote]

[quote=TheJohn][quote=throatslasher] [quote=TheJohn] [quote=Mikuroo] There are simply better picks then karma. Alot of people will defend karma and say that she is good and they can still win with her, but if we really wanna see whos viable, just look at the competitive scene. [/quote] Not at all. Just because the pros don't pick a certain champion, that means he/she isn't viable? The thing about "better picks" is how you play. I could be the worst Sona ever and say that she's bad, but I could be the best Janna player and say she's almost a instawin pick, but that's not how things work You just have to pick the ones you feel more confortable. I can easily win as Mordekaiser with Warmogs and Randuins, but that doesn't mean he's the best this or best that. People try too hard to copy the good players that they forget what's to have fun, to choose what you like to play as and win or lose. It's just a game [/quote] 100% disagree. Some champs just have underwhelming kits. Not all champs are created equal. Heimerdinger is shit. Karma is poopy. She's high skill, low reward. Mordekaiser is kinda poopy. He's good at what he does, which is anti-carry, but he just doesn't do much. Morde is low range, shitty laning phase, low damage all game, easily focused, easily kited, no cc, etc. He just has so many problems, it's better to just pick someone else. He's a good pick against certain champs, like vlad, though. [/quote] You started well, but failed at a certain point. I don't know much about heimer, so lets forget him (poor heimer) Karma isnt a low reward champion. Of course she has some hard flaws, like mantra dependency and high mana costs, but she has the best AoE heal in game, maybe the best shield (in terms of "extra health") and she has damage. Picking her may not be as safe as Janna or Sona, but knowing how to use her is excelent Another thing that I'd like to point is that people just dont know how to play as mordekaiser. Most people run a total AP monster, and thats totally wrong. As you said, he's easily kited and has no CC, so why make him a glass cannon? I get armor and MR runes. I tell you, he is my best solo top, won 1v2, they towerdived to kill me and I killed both. And I get Warmogs and Randuins, no AP until mid-late game, and I generally get 4-6 kills and 0-2 deaths Both Karma and Mordekaiser have flaws, and huge ones I must agree, but that doesnt make them bad champions. Knowing how to play, how to control them successfully is the key[/quote]