Your guides are ****.

[quote=lifebaka][quote=MrCuddowls] I guess people misunderstood what ive been saying I do agree with the fact that a lot of the guides on mobafire are not very good I listed some of the guides i though were good in a previous post some of them weren't but that's not the point The reason i said he is a troll is because i dont agree with this guy's attitude it seems like he feels as if hes above everyone and swears and flames a lot that can be considered a troll [/quote] Trolling really requires an intent to disrupt. Throatslasher has really shown that he's not here to disrupt, but to try to help. You can disagree with his methods, but that doesn't make him a troll. And no matter how much he might be an asshole, we can't just disregard him or what he's saying because of that. (Related to this, I apologize for assuming he was a troll at first as well.) [quote=Pølsemanden] The only way to fix this is: Have some good players sit down and look the featured guides through. Xaioli, winter, duff etc. Anyone +gold really. Then they look for 1 good guide for each champion(2 if we include jungle), they discuss which one is better and if there is even one which is good enough to fit the title Featured. If there aren't any featured guides of said champ, look up a mobaguy who is known to play that champ and kindly ask the fucker to make a guide. [/quote] This is workable, but any sort of "group of good players" should be kept relatively open to new members if it sticks around for long. I'm not sure if solo queue Elo is the best membership criterion, as I've challenged Elo as a measure of player skill before, but it's not bad and certainly the easiest criterion for the moment. If it's too difficult to join this group, and they end up wielding a lot of power over the guides, I worry that tension could build up in the community between the group and everyone else. Tension that could eventually lead to distrust and resentment. That sort of thing is not healthy for the community as a whole.[/quote]

[quote=Pølsemanden][quote=lifebaka] [quote=MrCuddowls] I guess people misunderstood what ive been saying I do agree with the fact that a lot of the guides on mobafire are not very good I listed some of the guides i though were good in a previous post some of them weren't but that's not the point The reason i said he is a troll is because i dont agree with this guy's attitude it seems like he feels as if hes above everyone and swears and flames a lot that can be considered a troll [/quote] Trolling really requires an intent to disrupt. Throatslasher has really shown that he's not here to disrupt, but to try to help. You can disagree with his methods, but that doesn't make him a troll. And no matter how much he might be an asshole, we can't just disregard him or what he's saying because of that. (Related to this, I apologize for assuming he was a troll at first as well.) [quote=Pølsemanden] The only way to fix this is: Have some good players sit down and look the featured guides through. Xaioli, winter, duff etc. Anyone +gold really. Then they look for 1 good guide for each champion(2 if we include jungle), they discuss which one is better and if there is even one which is good enough to fit the title Featured. If there aren't any featured guides of said champ, look up a mobaguy who is known to play that champ and kindly ask the fucker to make a guide. [/quote] This is workable, but any sort of "group of good players" should be kept relatively open to new members if it sticks around for long. I'm not sure if solo queue Elo is the best membership criterion, as I've challenged Elo as a measure of player skill before, but it's not bad and certainly the easiest criterion for the moment. If it's too difficult to join this group, and they end up wielding a lot of power over the guides, I worry that tension could build up in the community between the group and everyone else. Tension that could eventually lead to distrust and resentment. That sort of thing is not healthy for the community as a whole. [/quote] Maybe it should actually be plat+ to be one of the judges, gold+ to be one of the makers of the guides. Yes, it might be somewhat disruptive to some baddies who just don't know they are baddies. But i said IF we want to even remotely fix the reputation of mobafire, we have to do something pretty drastic, and that is probably to pressure matt into making the decision of guides being featured in the hands of skilled players>noobs.[/quote]

[quote=jhoijhoi][quote=Luther3000] One question jhoi; if the guide is so out of date why has it not been hit by the freshness system? My own guide is now rightly expired and doesn't show up in any lists on this site because I haven't bothered to update it in a month or two. Clearly, someone is still 'updating' this guide just to keep it showing up in the lists without actually making any changes. [/quote] Like Amanda said, people just refresh without doing anything. I know a lot of people who did/do this. Duff for one, is someone who does this. He hasn't updated any of his guides in months but refreshes them because he feels the information still helps. Dewo used to do it for all of his guides too. The only way to pull a truly out of date guide from the site is to report it, and even then, it took 6 months of me continuously reporting Dewo's guides before Matt actually took them down. Even when there was that Zhonya's Ring Morg guide - that took a few months to pull down. It was still up when I joined and Zhonya's Ring hadn't been an item since two years back Christmas. [quote=Pølsemanden]Maybe it should actually be plat+ to be one of the judges, gold+ to be one of the makers of the guides.[/quote] When I came to MobaFire, I was a level 30 with about 300 wins, 250 loses. I made a name for myself here by writing my Ashe guide. As I've gotten more experienced at the game, and climbed the elo ladder and fallen down it (so close to gold, 1490, now back to 1400), my guide has also reflected these experiences. Are you saying none of my guides should exist? Because I wasn't anywhere near gold when I wrote my guides. And Rose, one of the higher elo scouts, doesn't scout guides. What makes you think a bunch of new high elo people will want to bother sifting through thousands of guides to find the best ones? The most that the people in this thread can do, is to comment on the top guides you think are not great and give your opinion. If the owner doesn't respond, and is clearly just refreshing their guide without updating it (Karma guide), report it. And if all else fails, make your own guide. Recently Wrath wrote a guide deliberately so it'd be the highest rated Karthus guide.[/quote]

[quote=IceCreamy]It's fine to just refresh your guides if they still have valid information. I mean if nothing changes to the champ your guide is about how could you ever change any information?[/quote]

[quote=Minho]^ Perfect sense thar...[/quote]

[quote=lifebaka][quote=IceCreamy] It's fine to just refresh your guides if they still have valid information. I mean if nothing changes to the champ your guide is about how could you ever change any information? [/quote] Items change. Masteries change. Runes change. Other champs, and therefore matchups, change. The meta shifts away from certain things and towards other. Ways of playing champions fall in and out of style, which also effects build choices and matchups. It's very unlikely that a patch requires absolutely zero changes in a well written guide.[/quote]

[quote=Pølsemanden][quote=jhoijhoi] [quote=Luther3000] One question jhoi; if the guide is so out of date why has it not been hit by the freshness system? My own guide is now rightly expired and doesn't show up in any lists on this site because I haven't bothered to update it in a month or two. Clearly, someone is still 'updating' this guide just to keep it showing up in the lists without actually making any changes. [/quote] Like Amanda said, people just refresh without doing anything. I know a lot of people who did/do this. Duff for one, is someone who does this. He hasn't updated any of his guides in months but refreshes them because he feels the information still helps. Dewo used to do it for all of his guides too. The only way to pull a truly out of date guide from the site is to report it, and even then, it took 6 months of me continuously reporting Dewo's guides before Matt actually took them down. Even when there was that Zhonya's Ring Morg guide - that took a few months to pull down. It was still up when I joined and Zhonya's Ring hadn't been an item since two years back Christmas. [quote=Pølsemanden]Maybe it should actually be plat+ to be one of the judges, gold+ to be one of the makers of the guides.[/quote] When I came to MobaFire, I was a level 30 with about 300 wins, 250 loses. I made a name for myself here by writing my Ashe guide. As I've gotten more experienced at the game, and climbed the elo ladder and fallen down it (so close to gold, 1490, now back to 1400), my guide has also reflected these experiences. Are you saying none of my guides should exist? Because I wasn't anywhere near gold when I wrote my guides. And Rose, one of the higher elo scouts, doesn't scout guides. What makes you think a bunch of new high elo people will want to bother sifting through thousands of guides to find the best ones? The most that the people in this thread can do, is to comment on the top guides you think are not great and give your opinion. If the owner doesn't respond, and is clearly just refreshing their guide without updating it (Karma guide), report it. And if all else fails, make your own guide. Recently Wrath wrote a guide deliberately so it'd be the highest rated Karthus guide. [/quote] I'm sorry jhoi if you got offended, and of cpourse your guides should exist. You just didn't look at the root of my comment(the one before), i'm saying featured guides should at least be made by gold+ since if you can't even carry yourself beyond 1520 elo with a character then you don't master the champion enough to tell anyone how to play them and have millions of people believing that your featured guide is the way to do it. And for plat players they wouldn't have to look through millions of guides. They could quickly scim through the already featured and make a list of which ones doesn't belong there. Then the root of the problem(baddie guides who are featured) is gone, then comes the next challenge where they find 1(or 2 if jungling or mid/topping is an option for the champ) guide for each champ and make them featured. And i assume you'd only have to scout through the top 5-10 guides to find an appropriate one. ^soft restore for the reputation of mobafire^ An example: Roses riven guide is so fucking good well explained the items are spotless, only thing i'd really change would be to max Q against ap but that's just preferrence and i think he mentions maxing q if you're snowballing. It even has a well-explained matchupsection, this is a great example of a really great duide, whereas beeswarms has a supbar build(at best) and not even close to as well explained, WHY THE FUCK IS THAT ONE FEATURED, when rose is prolly a better player and made a better guide.[/quote]

[quote=jhoijhoi]But there isn't a problem of bad guides being featured, Polse. The Karma guide WAS GOOD when it was given the points for it to be featured. It WAS GOOD. It was ONE OF THE BEST guides on MobaFire. The root of the problem is that there is no sort of decay system. People who have the power to vet rec/scout can give points to whatever guide is GOOD AT THE TIME, and in two years, the guide can be one of the worst guides on the site, but there is no way to remove those scout points from those people who gave them out years ago. That's the problem. If Scouts could remove each other's scout points (say if I removed a scout point off the Karma guide right now, it'd be unfeatured), then we'd be fine. As it is, we cannot even PM the user who has scouted the Karma guide BECAUSE WE DON'T KNOW. Only the admin's know who's scouted what guides. I think scouting should be more public, the public should know which guides I've personally scouted and why. But that option was removed when scouting came out due to favouritism or something. tldr: MobaFire's scouting system has only one flaw, the fact that guides vet rec'd 2 years ago, are still featured because people forget about the guides they have given points to. Additionally, you say only gold people's guides can be featured. Again. What about my guides? My guides don't deserve to be featured? I'm still not gold, and I keep losing ranked games for all sorts of reasons - so my guides will never be featured?[/quote]

[quote=Pølsemanden]But if mobafire gave 2 handfulls of good players the power to feature/unfeature as they pleased for a limited time, we would have a base of good guides who are featured. No your guides should not be featured, if you're not even gold elo+ then you obviously don't master the champion you're playing. Let's have a quick look at your featured morgana guide, shall we? Build 1: Seal of replenishment are sooo bad, especially since you start with a doran's ring. Health/level or Armor are the only choice here really if you choose to stick by the doran's ring start. You go double doran's into a RoA, so you're not expecting to do any damage before 30 minutes of the game passed where you get your needlessly large rod? 1 doran's MAX if you pair it with roa. Banshees veil, really? 21/6/3, really? Build 2: This looks a lot more promising. You don't want shielding glyphs on morgana, you're already playing the safest mid character in the game, you have a shield scaling with ap, and your strength in lane is your ability to push, why would you go against that? I prefer hp/level seals but it's a matchup choice. Dark binding on lvl 2, really? REALLY? The reason i think that featured guidewriters should be searched through so harshly is that mobafire is in direct competition with lolpro and solomid, there they have PRO'S to write their guides. If you don't understand your champion at the amount a pro does, your guide shouldn't be featured. edit: i kinda feel like a douche for telling you you don't know your morgana but there are some things that could definately be much better.[/quote]

[quote=Mooninites][quote=wRAthoFVuLK] yes because most of the veterans + actually know how to make good guides [/quote] a good guide to people is how fancy it looks, that's what I normally see most of this community voting on. I prefer to vote on the content of a guide or if I've seen that person perform with that champion. Featured guides to me should feature players who excel at that champion and have greater first hand knowledge, the criteria shouldn't be just "a good guide". There are plenty of good guides on the site that don't get featured it's not that I agree with this jackass, throatslasher, but I don't like the featured guides section[/quote]