Malady and Madred's Bloodrazor, two useless items

[quote=Opaque_Shadow][img=http://troll.me/images/futurama-fry/not-sure-if-trolling-or-just-very-stupid.jpg][/quote]

[quote=lifebaka]I'd be careful of Bloodrazor buffs. While I agree that it could use a bit of work, it should [i]never[/i] be a good pick for an AD carry. Comparing the current passive to a somewhat similar item, [[Wit's End]], a target only has to have (42 / 0.04) = 1050 HP for the Bloodrazor to do more damage. In order to make the Bloodrazor good enough for AD carries to consider using, it would probably end up as a stupidly good (or better) item on tanky DPS and offtanks.[/quote]

[quote=NicknameMy]Well, or you just could release [[kitae's bloodrazor]] and still having [[madred's bloodrazor]]. Of course, their passive couldn't stack. But this way you could change the recipe of [[kitae's bloodrazor]] to [[recurve bow]] and [[b. f. sword]] (would be physical damage) and be this way a viable AD-Item, while [[madred's bloodrazor]] would be changed to [[madred's razors]](if it wouldn't have the name, I would put it out for [[cloth armor]])+[[null-magic mantle]]+[[recurve bow]] (magic dmg) to be a viable on-hit item. [[Malady]] with armor(50), the magic dmg red(I thought about 10, 4 stacks possible) and the magic damage on-hit(40) could be very viable on on-hit champions and the armor-opposite to [[wit's end]]. This way you could go full on-hit while still beeing tanky. And every on-hit item deals magic damage, so we could see all tanky dps which rely on attack speed to build this then, especially vs an ad-heavy lane. Also, finally an item which can kick [[atma's impaler]] out of his position. Champs, which would build this: [[cho'gath]] [[dr. mundo]](would be fun huehue) on-hit top lane [[fizz]] [[irelia]](better buff [[irelia]]) "AD" [[kennen]] On-hit [[kog'maw]] on-hit top lane [[nidalee]] [[shen]] which wants to deal more damage [[skarner]] (obviously) [[teemo]] [[phoenix stance]] [[udyr]] (as far as I heard) [[Varus]] [[warwick]] [[Xin Zhao]](but he wouldn't make a comeback) For me that are enough champs to justify that change.[/quote]

[quote=Lugignaf]To be honest, if it was changed to physical damage, that would make it a [i]less[/i] attractive item. While it would be better on AD carries, it already shines on off-tanks like Irelia and Udyr. People that need to have diverse damage types and that do well with AS. It was never meant to be a carry's item other than [i]maybe[/i] Kog'Maw. If you want raw AS, Phantom dancer does it better because you get the crit and move speed. If you wanted AD, there are a ton of better items. If you want the armor, get either Wriggles or a GA. Both are far more useful to the team as a whole. Xin, already a good item on him. Same with Irelia and Udyr. I'll post more in the morning.(8-9 hours from now)[/quote]

[quote=Mooninites][quote=Luther3000] Really guys, there's no need to flame like this. Just stop it. [/quote] if he's really this dumb he needs to know it[/quote]

[quote=NicknameMy]Okay, I will now just report anyone which goes off-topic just to flame. This is called cyber mobbing. If you don't want to theorycraft about the topic, leave the thread. If you just want to flame others, leave the forum. As for [[udyr]] and [[irelia]], yes, it can be a good item for them. But it still costs too much to afford it, it will be most of the time the last item which you never get and it is still very situational. I would just build more tanky rather than [[madred's bloodrazor]] atm.[/quote]

[quote=Xenasis][quote=Lugignaf] While it would be better on AD carries, it already shines on off-tanks like Irelia and Udyr. People that need to have diverse damage types and that do well with AS. [/quote] No it isn't. I don't think I've seen it built on them for a good while, for great reason. Off tanks kill carries, not other off tanks. % health is wasted compared to a Trinity Force or other expensive, pure damage item. If you want high damage, you roll with a Trinity Force on an off tank, after that there's simply no room to wiggle about in terms of extra damage. You do not want % damage to kill carries and as an off tank, pinning down, and hurting as much as you can, the enemy carries from their team. [quote=lifebaka] Comparing the current passive to a somewhat similar item, [[Wit's End]], a target only has to have (42 / 0.04) = 1050 HP for the Bloodrazor to do more damage. In order to make the Bloodrazor good enough for AD carries to consider using, it would probably end up as a stupidly good (or better) item on tanky DPS and offtanks. [/quote] Which brings me towards my next point - People get Wit's End on off tanks because it gives great bulk AND pretty good damage. They don't get it just because the passive is magic damage. Investing ~4k into an item with 100% damage potential and minimal bulk isn't the same as getting something for its great bulk and also damage. Unless it gives a LOT more bulk and a shift in damage type (from %) then it won't be for an off tank, and then it would be a completely different item. Basically - If it doesn't have bulk, it won't be for off tanks. Trinity Force is far better for them as a single pure damage item (due to reasons previously explained), and Madred's needs other things to back it up, especially due to the random AD - you're going to need crit to make the most use of that.[/quote]

[quote=NicknameMy][quote=Xenasis] [quote=Lugignaf] While it would be better on AD carries, it already shines on off-tanks like Irelia and Udyr. People that need to have diverse damage types and that do well with AS. [/quote] No it isn't. I don't think I've seen it built on them for a good while, for great reason. Off tanks kill carries, not other off tanks. % health is wasted compared to a Trinity Force or other expensive, pure damage item. If you want high damage, you roll with a Trinity Force on an off tank, after that there's simply no room to wiggle about in terms of extra damage. You do not want % damage to kill carries and as an off tank, pinning down, and hurting as much as you can, the enemy carries from their team. [quote=lifebaka] Comparing the current passive to a somewhat similar item, [[Wit's End]], a target only has to have (42 / 0.04) = 1050 HP for the Bloodrazor to do more damage. In order to make the Bloodrazor good enough for AD carries to consider using, it would probably end up as a stupidly good (or better) item on tanky DPS and offtanks. [/quote] Which brings me towards my next point - People get Wit's End on off tanks because it gives great bulk AND pretty good damage. They don't get it just because the passive is magic damage. Investing ~4k into an item with 100% damage potential and minimal bulk isn't the same as getting something for its great bulk and also damage. Unless it gives a LOT more bulk and a shift in damage type (from %) then it won't be for an off tank, and then it would be a completely different item. Basically - If it doesn't have bulk, it won't be for off tanks. Trinity Force is far better for them as a single pure damage item (due to reasons previously explained), and Madred's needs other things to back it up, especially due to the random AD - you're going to need crit to make the most use of that. [/quote] That proves that my attempts to fix it go into the right direction. [[Malady]] with Armor and [[madred's bloodrazor]] with armor+mr instead of ad seem to be viable then.[/quote]

[quote=Luther3000][quote=Lugignaf] To be honest, if it was changed to physical damage, that would make it a [i]less[/i] attractive item. While it would be better on AD carries, it already shines on off-tanks like Irelia and Udyr. People that need to have diverse damage types and that do well with AS. [/quote] No, because [[Last Whisper]]. It's the same reason the change to Miss Fortune's ult from magical to physical was a huge buff. Also Udyr's damage is primarily magic already and I can't think of any champion other than Warwick that I'd ever build Madred's on. As for [[wit's end]] not only does it give better defensive stats but it's also like half the price.[/quote]

[quote=DaRealWario]All of my first 3 [[Udyr]] matches were successful because of this item being in the build. It doesn't need any altering :P[/quote]