Improving my gameplay as Shen

[quote=FantomFang]I'm looking to get some input and opinions on some concerns/questions I have. I'm lv15 atm, and I've probably played Shen more than any other champion (I fell in love with Tank/Supports from almost the start, I play Zilean also and am working on learning Rammus/Janna, Janna espeically). And now I've got some questions about him that I'd like to ask: (1) Jungling - I've been trying to do a route with him (yeah, I know runes suck at my lvl). I've actually got relevant tier 1 runes I've been using for all my champs (ArP/MrP, Dodge/Armor/Mp5, CDR/MR, HP - just bought the armor to try and help shen jungle) since they're cheap, and have been saving for the tier 3 runes. I've found now that I can almost complete a typical full clear at the start of the game (following the path in Stonewall's "Resilience" jungle shen i take wolves first, only getting big, then blue, then work my way down) but I have to skip red on the initial run. From there, I find that I can get back to wolves as they respawn and from there I can either go blue or wraiths-golems-red, possibly ganking top or bottom depending on my choice, although I've only tested this in customs. Is this a decent path, at least for what I've got? I'm running 0/15/0 atm (no exp sucks, but I feel it's not good to jump into utility until I finish defense) with Smite. Typically I run Ghost/Exhaust with the masteries when I lane, but what should I pair with smite you think? Am I better dipping utility for the exp, even though that'll likely force me to do a more low lvl route (think small creeps only for a couple waves). (2) How does the heart of gold nerf affect the way you think Shen should get built, especially early? I used to go Randuin's quite off, grabbing HoG after boots (I would start boots/pots in lane typically) and then going Aegis as 3rd. I don't have a problem with lategame item builds, I'm just wondering how I should alter my previous builds now. (3) How do you use Vorpal Blade in teamfights? I find that it usually reduces my energy quite fast, and I end up stuck with a small window near the end of a short teamfight where I'm unable to taunt due to energy issues. Should I take that fault and keep up more dmg with vorpal blade, or should I be content to lead off with it and then mostly save my energy during the fights, only blading near full energy, or to kill when chasing? Those are my main questions, and as I said, I'm just looking for some input and opinions to help form my own decision about how to proceed with him. In regards to the jungling, understand that I'll likely only be doing this in solo queue where almost no one jungles, rather than when I team up, as I have friends that like to jungle alot (Shaco, Warwick, Nocturne primarily). Thanks![/quote]

[quote=Mowen]Don't know about jungling Shen, never done it. 2. I would still start off with HoG. I typically go HoG > boots > aegis > randuins. HoG isn't as good but is still cheap and helps you with a little money so you can avoid last hitting over your carries and live off assists. Reason for building randuin's later than aegis is aegis will make randuin's active more powerful. 3. Do not use vorpal blade if you won't have enough energy for taunt / shield. Like you said, maybe open with it and then don't use it unless you are at full energy. Taunt is the MUST HAVE EVERY CD spell in team fights. Add me if you want, ign is Mowen. I play shen a lot. I also play Zilean / Janna and other supports. For some reason I kinda suck with Rammus though, sorry. :([/quote]

[quote=mobrebel]off-topic - How do you suck with push-w-win-champion??? on-topic - I usually only use Vorpal Blade until after the first initial taunt as long as I hit an enemy. HoG is a good start. The gold is very nice. But, without the armor that it used to have, it really doesn't work out as a good starting item to build for Jungling... I only use the shield if I need to protect myself from death. It really isn't needed any other time IMO. It really isn't good unless you go AP, which I do NOT recommend unless you are doing a pubstomp game. Following Stonewall's path is probably a good idea. The points needed to get to get the EXP is 8, with 10 points needed for 2 points in increased buff duration. If you get the EXP, you could still get 3 points in the armor, 1 or 3 in Magic Resist, and some in Dodge for a little bit easier of a time for early game jungle. Dodge doesn't really help later, but it can help a little bit. Hope this helps.[/quote]

[quote=FantomFang][quote=Mowen] 2. I would still start off with HoG. I typically go HoG > boots > aegis > randuins. HoG isn't as good but is still cheap and helps you with a little money so you can avoid last hitting over your carries and live off assists. Reason for building randuin's later than aegis is aegis will make randuin's active more powerful. [/quote] I do try to give as much gold to my carries and such as possible, although almost every game I solo queue (when I'm not with lv30 friends) I end up laning with someone who constantly auto-attacks the creeps, and I end up outfarming them just by virtue of them ignoring last hitting. That being said, I don't want to plan for those sort of pugs anywho. So for purchase order, something along the lines of: Boots/Pots to start, then HoG, then finish boots (treads), then Aegis, with randuin's after? I've been considering Rylai's, how do you think that might fit into a Shen build? HP to help tank, AP to buff blade/shields, slow to make Vorpal Blade sticky to get the runners/initiate to save taunt for early/mid-fight when ults starting going down. [quote=Mowen] 3. Do not use vorpal blade if you won't have enough energy for taunt / shield. Like you said, maybe open with it and then don't use it unless you are at full energy. Taunt is the MUST HAVE EVERY CD spell in team fights. [/quote] That's about what I thought. [quote=mowen] Add me if you want, ign is Mowen. I play shen a lot. I also play Zilean / Janna and other supports. For some reason I kinda suck with Rammus though, sorry. :( [/quote] Sounds good, would love to have someone else to play with. I'll be playing here and there over the next few days, but I should be on tons later next week. [quote=mobrebel] I only use the shield if I need to protect myself from death. It really isn't needed any other time IMO. It really isn't good unless you go AP, which I do NOT recommend unless you are doing a pubstomp game. [/quote] I like to use the shield a lot in all of the poking engagements that happen, and I usually like to give it another point or two when shadow dash hits lv3 or so. And yeah, I'd never go full AP, although I am trying out adding a Rylai's into my builds. [quote=mobrebel] Following Stonewall's path is probably a good idea. The points needed to get to get the EXP is 8, with 10 points needed for 2 points in increased buff duration. If you get the EXP, you could still get 3 points in the armor, 1 or 3 in Magic Resist, and some in Dodge for a little bit easier of a time for early game jungle. Dodge doesn't really help later, but it can help a little bit. [/quote] Yeah, after a bad experience, I've learned that my jungle's still a bit too finicky at the moment, and I never come out of it with enough HP to be of any use, so I'm waiting until 20. That should come fairly quickly though as I used my free 350 rp on an xp boost so I can finally spend my saved up IP on runes. But anyways, you suggest diving immediately into the utility tree before working on the defense tree? I'll give that a try and see how different jungling feels at 20 with 0/11/9 vs 0/20/0,.[/quote]

[quote=Mowen]I actually start with a health crystal to rush HoG better. Rylai's is ok but I find that to make the slow useful I would need to rush it, and then you forsake buying resistances and it ends up hurting your tankiness a lot. I used to always rush it because I liked being able to chase with Q, but if you hit your dashes right you can usually do without the slow. Some people also get Frozen Mallet on him. The thing is for either Frozen Mallet and Rylais I would get them as the last item if I get them at all. Resistances are just so important for your survivability.[/quote]

[quote=FantomFang]Yeah, I think I agree. The game's I went for Rylai's they came to late to help with ganks, and didn't really help as much as I thought. Btw, I think you denied my friend request. At least, you're not online or on my list of offline friends now. I'll send it again, I've seen the crazy inflow of requests some ppl get when I watch the occasional stream.[/quote]

[quote=Mowen]Haha, I didn't reject it. I just hadn't been on LoL in a while because I've been busy with school. Things have died down a bit. I just logged on and accepted. :)[/quote]

[quote=The_Nameless_Bard]I started with cloth armor and 5 health pots on jungle Shen, when I did it regularily. EDIT: Just did it a couple times today, def Cloth Armor as starting item Good Route: Small Golems Wraiths Wolves Blue Buff Other various 'till level 4 Red Buff (go gank lane if you want) Kill wraiths, wolves, golems and such 'till you hit level 6 I like to a Warmog's/Sunfire Cape build on Shen, but some people seem to hate the former for him. Abyssal Scepter and Zhonya's Hourglass are other AP items that work well on Shen...I'm not sure if you can activate the Zhonya's while ulting, but if you could it would be pretty ridiculous.[/quote]