Views: 2302 A moment of venting.
|
Report
I don't often complain about these sorts of things, but that's mostly because I am keenly aware that my frustration or thoughts on a subject will probably do nothing to change these events from occurring the way they do. There's no use crying over spilled milk, as they say.
However, there's something to be said about a reoccurring event here. It's inevitable, it happens to every guide ever written, no matter how complete or well written. I'll give you the perfect example of what I'm hinting at.
You write the biggest best longest guide ever about "X" champion, you've been playing him since Beta, you've got 8,000 games played on this champion.
AKA, you are the best ever at this champ. Like SpamHappy is to Poppy, like Wickd is to Irelia, like HotShot is to Nidalee, you are to this champion.
You write this guide and check the comment to vote option. Yeah, why not? They will express their opinions and vote accordingly. It's fine if they don't like it, but at least that they explain to you -why- they don't like it. Maybe it's something you forgot to address in your guide and you can explain it better to them.
5+ votes, cool. 10+ votes, people are enjoying it. 1 dv, 19 + votes. Alright, one guy had some iffy logic and was wrong, but since he posted, you were able to publicly address his points and the readers who take the time to go through the comments section will know that the vote was not accurate if they actually read what the guide writer was saying.
Or perhaps they will agree with the downvoter and the guide's problems will be exposed. Either way, because people are forced to comment, these things are exposed and it becomes easy to see who is in the right and who is in the wrong.
However... Now were are at 20 votes, and comment to vote fades off.
BANG 5 consecutive downvotes. All anonymous, nobody tells you why they are voting, so nothing would change even if they were legitimate votes.
But in all likelihood what it really is, is some kid made an account and logged on and just went around downvoting the top rated guides. Either that, or some very immature person has a personal vendetta against you, and comes around and downvotes all of your guides due to personal reasons.
But no matter how you look at it, anonymous voting does not result in accurately rated guides, and that's a frustrating reality.
I don't care about how horrible it was before when comment to vote was permanent. All the fighting and chaos and revenge voting there was before, all the "Inflated guide ratings" there were before, I don't care, to me, that is comfortably a worthy trade for having anonymity removed from voting. In my opinion, votes should not be anonymous. You should be able to publicly address the reasons for a downvote, and/or not have to because it's obviously a trollvote or a revenge vote.
I don't care if a person downvotes, I really don't, I just wish it could be public and obvious that they are wrong and/or trolling. The percentage at the top of the guide is not that important to me. My Tryn guide is only 80%, which is an absolute joke, but I don't care. What I care about is that I never get the chance to explain to these anonymous downvoters why I make the claims I do.
/Endrant. Thanks for listening, feels good to vent that out. Now, I will do my best to go back to not giving a **** about it, because it's not going to change.
However, there's something to be said about a reoccurring event here. It's inevitable, it happens to every guide ever written, no matter how complete or well written. I'll give you the perfect example of what I'm hinting at.
You write the biggest best longest guide ever about "X" champion, you've been playing him since Beta, you've got 8,000 games played on this champion.
AKA, you are the best ever at this champ. Like SpamHappy is to Poppy, like Wickd is to Irelia, like HotShot is to Nidalee, you are to this champion.
You write this guide and check the comment to vote option. Yeah, why not? They will express their opinions and vote accordingly. It's fine if they don't like it, but at least that they explain to you -why- they don't like it. Maybe it's something you forgot to address in your guide and you can explain it better to them.
5+ votes, cool. 10+ votes, people are enjoying it. 1 dv, 19 + votes. Alright, one guy had some iffy logic and was wrong, but since he posted, you were able to publicly address his points and the readers who take the time to go through the comments section will know that the vote was not accurate if they actually read what the guide writer was saying.
Or perhaps they will agree with the downvoter and the guide's problems will be exposed. Either way, because people are forced to comment, these things are exposed and it becomes easy to see who is in the right and who is in the wrong.
However... Now were are at 20 votes, and comment to vote fades off.
BANG 5 consecutive downvotes. All anonymous, nobody tells you why they are voting, so nothing would change even if they were legitimate votes.
But in all likelihood what it really is, is some kid made an account and logged on and just went around downvoting the top rated guides. Either that, or some very immature person has a personal vendetta against you, and comes around and downvotes all of your guides due to personal reasons.
But no matter how you look at it, anonymous voting does not result in accurately rated guides, and that's a frustrating reality.
I don't care about how horrible it was before when comment to vote was permanent. All the fighting and chaos and revenge voting there was before, all the "Inflated guide ratings" there were before, I don't care, to me, that is comfortably a worthy trade for having anonymity removed from voting. In my opinion, votes should not be anonymous. You should be able to publicly address the reasons for a downvote, and/or not have to because it's obviously a trollvote or a revenge vote.
I don't care if a person downvotes, I really don't, I just wish it could be public and obvious that they are wrong and/or trolling. The percentage at the top of the guide is not that important to me. My Tryn guide is only 80%, which is an absolute joke, but I don't care. What I care about is that I never get the chance to explain to these anonymous downvoters why I make the claims I do.
/Endrant. Thanks for listening, feels good to vent that out. Now, I will do my best to go back to not giving a **** about it, because it's not going to change.
I tend to think my guides are very good but they've always had a bit of a buzz, even from day one. I wrote my Offtanks guide before I ever knew there was even a forum here. :P
To be fair, I do need to spend some time renovating my Talon guide a bit (been grinding away to put that extra coat of shine on a Fiora guide), but it's not like it's in the same boat as 90% of the guides here are...
Me not read this but:
Ask Matt to add a new feature for voting after the first 20 comment 2 vote thing.
Like I vote up/down + why? some points then: Items, Order, If the Guide was tidy or sth like that, and they ahve to hit one of them
After reading all of this, I really like this idea. You'll still get troll responses, but at least you'll get SOME response, which is the point. To add on to his idea, maybe in the guide editing, you can see a compiling of all the responses, so if you got 20 downvotes, you can see that 5 of them were because of your items, 2 was because of your skill order, 3 for runes, 4 for guide presentation, and 6 for "other". You can look at that, and say, "OK, 5 people don't like my items. Why could that be? Is there a better item choice? Maybe rushing a Youmuus on Mundo isn't the best idea." Of course, you hope one downvoter will post a comment saying, "Hey, Youmuu's isn't something you rush on Mundo", but at least having the 5 pointers will give you somewhere to work with. Its a nice compromise between anonymity for viewers and helping people who write guides write better guides, which in turns helps everyone become better LoL players.
Ask Matt to add a new feature for voting after the first 20 comment 2 vote thing.
Like I vote up/down + why? some points then: Items, Order, If the Guide was tidy or sth like that, and they ahve to hit one of them
I'm almost thinking that removing score would help with 'inflation'.
Remove score completely, reset all guides (but keep all featured guides featured and scouts still have the same scout points) and turn c2v on permanently.
No score inflation, just votes.
0_0
but w/e.
Why is everybody talking about the score?
I don't CARE about the scoring system.
I just want people to see the reasons for the votes. That's all.
But there would be less downvotes if it was public, and you would get inflated guides. I truly believe this. The top guides will continue being the top guides, and better guides will never reach the inflated scores.
Also, maybe they don't read your guide because every chapter is a complete wall of text, that only a dedicated reader would try to read. That, or when you reply to comments, you can be excessively rude. Those are reasons alone that some people may downvote.
Irrelevant, irrelevant, irrelevant, irrelevant, irrelevant, irrelevant, etc.
None of that has any bearing on how I feel about the system. Right now there's monstrouss troll downvoting. Change the system, and suddenly there's not enough downvoting. Who cares?
If I'm rude, then let them downvote, I don't care if they downvote. If I'm excessively rude, and that's why people are downvoting, then people should see that. It's not hard to understand that nothing you've said makes any difference. You've entirely missed the point, talking about score and inflated guide scores when this is actually about publicizing reasons for voting. I prefer out in the open to under the rug, so that people can see why the votes are being cast.
Remove score completely, reset all guides (but keep all featured guides featured and scouts still have the same scout points) and turn c2v on permanently.
No score inflation, just votes.
0_0
but w/e.
As for the odd spot, they will eventually get there. My guide got up there after....months? Many months, but it does take time and the occasional person to search in the right place.
If it is public then does peer pressure exist. A little bit, but this is the internet. I really don't care about peer pressure on the internet I say what I want and stick to my guns. Also we don't have to put the red bars they can just go back to normal, but because they post a comment we can often figure out who thinks what.
Also, maybe they don't read your guide because every chapter is a complete wall of text, that only a dedicated reader would try to read. That, or when you reply to comments, you can be excessively rude. Those are reasons alone that some people may downvote.
But where do you draw the line, Duff?
I don't care about drawing a line.
I just want to see it, and be able to say, "Yeah well that's not legitimate."
Or, see it and say, "Hey, good point, let me puzzle that over and come up with a solution."
Or, "Yeah how silly of me not to include that, let me add it in."
Or, "Wow troll. Nice one loser."
Whatever the case may be, I just want it to be public, so there's no mystery.
As it stands, I have no idea why more people aren't upvoting my Tryndamere guide, yet Tryndamere is comfortably my best champion, he's my "I want to win this game for free" pick. And the technique was made by a 2.3k Elo buddy of mine, so I really don't understand why people are downvoting.
I'm guessing it's due to Heal and Ignite and the fact that there's trolls out there. That's probably why, but I have no idea.
And in the case that they are voting, I wonder if they even read the guide?
Point being, it's not up to me to decide what is or isn't a troll-vote, and whether it is or not is really besides the point. I would prefer to see why people are voting and be able to address the reasons why or discard them appropriately. The exposure of these votes is what allows people to see if the reasons are legitimate or not.
I think another way to help would be to add some kind of easier way for guides, particularly new and low rated ones to get attention. Like maybe make the reveiwing systems set up by several members more official and advertised, or even add an incentive for doing it.
Right now the sad truth is for most champions if your guide ever drops below ~70-80% you're absolutely ****ed because only the top three guides ever really get looked at.
I am in that bizarre zone where my Tryn guide is featured, yet it's not really even close to the highest rated. And with the current system, we will never know why, even though it puzzles me to no end. I am sooo curious what the people are thinking when they vote on that guide.