Mastarwe
<Member>
<Member>
the easiest recommendation is to counterbuild when you seem to need it. e.g. against le blanc as soon as possible, but against something more lategame you can first build something offensive. Only problem with this is that it may be too late though, since you may just have gone back when you realize that you can't handle it, making it likely (in some situations) that you'll die before getting the money for def items.
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yeah a negatron might of been too big a set back. a null-resistant mantle though would of been a great counter-building item in that situation.
the easiest way to counter build is to build resistances to the kind of damage the enemy deals.
the easiest way to counter build is to build resistances to the kind of damage the enemy deals.
I like things that make me feel stupid. - Ken Levine
This is all very subjective.
What champ are you playing?
What is your role? Etc.
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When building resistances on a tank, this doesn't set you back at all. That's part of the reason that a lot of tanks are great solo laners. You can counter your lane, building resistances you will actually use later.
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When building a DPS, you want to be cost effective. This is why Wriggle's is a great counter to AD solo top champs, when USING AD solo top champs. Armor, a bit of damage that won't be wasted, a useful proc to help deal with Dragons and Baron, and LIFE STEAL. The life steal and armor may be all you need to stay in the lane, at which point building damage like a Brutalizer might be your best bet (On a guy like Lee Sin) to simply beat your opponent down so that you won't NEED to be sustaining yourself because they can't fight you.
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Sometimes, you might have to make a quick decision, and you might make the wrong one, but as you go you'll learn bit by bit about counter building. :) It's much easier on tanks and Offtanks than it is on damage dealers, which is just another reason I prefer the Offtanky type of champion.
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DuffTime's general rules;
Are you the AD or AP carry? Don't build low quality items like Hexdrinker. No matter what, no matter how badly you're losing your lane, don't do it. Wriggle's is a bit different because of the life steal, and can be considered, but Hexdrinker isn't worth it.
Don't build Abyssal early just because they have a heavy magic damage team.
You must deal damage. You've got to hurt when you attack or cast spells.
On a carry, if you're losing horrifically, a GA is appropriate, as it allows you to be focused and killed without dying. If your team is strong, or even just average, they may be able to win the fight while you're down. During this time, you can farm bit by bit and get the item you'll need to carry later.
What champ are you playing?
What is your role? Etc.
---
When building resistances on a tank, this doesn't set you back at all. That's part of the reason that a lot of tanks are great solo laners. You can counter your lane, building resistances you will actually use later.
---
When building a DPS, you want to be cost effective. This is why Wriggle's is a great counter to AD solo top champs, when USING AD solo top champs. Armor, a bit of damage that won't be wasted, a useful proc to help deal with Dragons and Baron, and LIFE STEAL. The life steal and armor may be all you need to stay in the lane, at which point building damage like a Brutalizer might be your best bet (On a guy like Lee Sin) to simply beat your opponent down so that you won't NEED to be sustaining yourself because they can't fight you.
---
Sometimes, you might have to make a quick decision, and you might make the wrong one, but as you go you'll learn bit by bit about counter building. :) It's much easier on tanks and Offtanks than it is on damage dealers, which is just another reason I prefer the Offtanky type of champion.
---
DuffTime's general rules;
Are you the AD or AP carry? Don't build low quality items like Hexdrinker. No matter what, no matter how badly you're losing your lane, don't do it. Wriggle's is a bit different because of the life steal, and can be considered, but Hexdrinker isn't worth it.
Don't build Abyssal early just because they have a heavy magic damage team.
You must deal damage. You've got to hurt when you attack or cast spells.
On a carry, if you're losing horrifically, a GA is appropriate, as it allows you to be focused and killed without dying. If your team is strong, or even just average, they may be able to win the fight while you're down. During this time, you can farm bit by bit and get the item you'll need to carry later.
http://www.mobafire.com/league-of-legends/build/duffs-336706
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Thanks all for the responses, I was really just using that as a sort of basis so you know what I was talking about, I was talking more general stuff. But yeah, I see what you were saying about the negaton vs. null-mantle or whatever, would have built into merc treads. Obviously I know MR counter magic damage. It's more in the early laning stages that I'm not certain about.
My main question I guess applies to offtanks, where you want some damage but you need tankiness too. Especially with a laning Lee Sin, I feel like if I build tank early I do next to no damage. Is that okay?
Mastarwe - Yeah I actually hadn't fed or died or anything. But I just was slowly getting forced out of the lane.
caucheka - Yeah that's a good point, so maybe go for some cheaper resists earlier game?
PotatisFarfar - Mmm I dunno how I feel about hexdrinker, and Spirit Visage def falls off late game, so it sort of seems like hard money to spend.
Samgoeslol - Mmm I'm not sure if wriggles would have helped, normally I build it but against an AP carry ionno
Thanks Duff once again for once again schooling the scrub :P
My main question I guess applies to offtanks, where you want some damage but you need tankiness too. Especially with a laning Lee Sin, I feel like if I build tank early I do next to no damage. Is that okay?
Mastarwe - Yeah I actually hadn't fed or died or anything. But I just was slowly getting forced out of the lane.
caucheka - Yeah that's a good point, so maybe go for some cheaper resists earlier game?
PotatisFarfar - Mmm I dunno how I feel about hexdrinker, and Spirit Visage def falls off late game, so it sort of seems like hard money to spend.
Samgoeslol - Mmm I'm not sure if wriggles would have helped, normally I build it but against an AP carry ionno
Thanks Duff once again for once again schooling the scrub :P
As an AP carry mid (Cassi usually), spamming Doran's Rings works as a cheap counter build which helps with laning, survivability and early-mid game fights while allowing me to focus my gold on Deathcap and Void Staff.
I think that's the principle behind Doran's Blade stacking too (saving for Infinity Edge)... but I hate ranged AD carries so I've never done it ;)
I think that's the principle behind Doran's Blade stacking too (saving for Infinity Edge)... but I hate ranged AD carries so I've never done it ;)
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So I think I've gotten to the point where my game play is fairly solid (I can use the characters correctly) and I know ways I like to build champions. I also know how every item currently in the game works. So I think I have all the basics down.
But I want to sort of take it to the next level, and I feel like this is counter-building and how to know when it is appropriate. For example, I was laning Lee Sin against an Annie (my friends and I were sort of trolling and just goofing off and I was really the only semi-viable mid). And For my first buy when I got back, I picked up a Negaton Cloak, seemed like a good counter-build. It didn't seem to improve my laning all that much though and put me (or at least I felt like it put me) behind on any damage output. So I was considering this and wondering if that instead of building a more offensive item (like a brutalizer) if I may have screwed myself.
So, I guess my question is, does anyone have any helpful guidelines involving counter building (I'm basically talking about 1v1 lanes), whether it be when or when not to counter build or what items counter who? Thanks in advance!