Kog'Maw Build Guide : Diamond AP Kog'maw - Acid Reign [25.04]

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this build is broken to this day compared to the recommended items that the game suggests

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Just another small comment; it feels weird that Muramana is placed in the first slot in the 'cheat sheet' build while the text post itself says to buy Liandry's first.

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That's reasonable. The current rationale is that this is what the final build looks like (as tear is the first item, and thus Muramana is in the first slot). The Core meanwhile is the actual build order.

But that may be unnecessarily confusing. I'll get some more input and then modify accordingly; thanks for the note!

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Yeah, I personally thought it was a similar vibe to champions that end up buying Archangel's first to stack it faster as well as have an earlier powerspike rather than delaying their first item by Tear's investment cost, but then I thought 'there's no way Kog'Maw actually wants that though does he' and had to check the written order.

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Hello! Noticed your guide was generally negative about Banshee's and Hourglass, which I get behind, but what about Frozen Heart? Compared to Banshee's and Hourglass it provides mana which seems like a more significant stat for this type of build, especially with Muramana's AD conversion and reliance on Kog's ultimate.

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Hey! Frozen Heart is definitely better than the other options for the reasons you've noted, but my main hesitation with it is that it makes an already-slow build even slower. I've already occasionally considered removing Rylais (or at least putting it one spot later in the build) this season because the build isn't ramping up to relevancy fast enough. Frozen Heart then, like other really nice defensive options such as Deadmans, all fall into the issue of making the build too slow.

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That's fair. I was mainly imagining buying Frozen Heart after 3 items since that seems to be the point where your 'core' is done and you can look at alternative choices, but if the loss of damage is too significant even at that point to make up for survivability I get it.

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Interesting S14 build.

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New season, new items to take into consideration! What with Mythics being removed and Liandry's losing its mana, perhaps Malignance might find some significance? Luden's Companion seems interesting as well.

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Yes it shall be updated! Actually I just spent last night going over what Kog'maw's new build order likely looks like. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbwM-ExFKsU&t=8221s

So my initial thoughts are that Malignance is worth rushing as a first item. Also after my test game with AP Kog (end of the video), Rylais will likely return to the order. It's just so hard to land multiple hits on a row if you don't have it!

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I really like this guide, but I have a question: Now that shadowflame has been released, should it not become part of the core build? It gives magic penetration in the form of the passive, it builds off of an item with an on-hit effect so building it as your second item could be good, and it gives health. Seems to me like it fits in this style of build quite well, but when should it be built (if at all)? Would be cool if you updated your guide to include shadowflame! I'd also like to know your opinion on First strike. Spellbook is great and has saved me on many occassions, but I also want to know your opinion on First strike since it could theoretically get you your items sooner.

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Season 12 itemization is upon us. Can't wait to see where Shadowflame and maybe the updated Horizon Focus may fit into the build.

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REALLY LOVE THIS GUIDE. i'M ENJOYING AP KOG SO MUCH TAHNK YOU MAN.

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Is ap kog still good? i think new presence of mind will be good on him

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Still fantastic, it spikes a bit earlier this season too at the cost of some raw mana compared to last season. I detail in the guide why I don't like Presence of Mind on AP Kog, namely that the overall mana regen it offers is generally less than Manaflow Band, and Manaflow already doesn't give enough mana for me to want.

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No reason you can't do both. Kog is mana hungry enough to make it a reasonable choice, especially with the across-the-board nerfing of mana on items. Admittedly a precision + sorcery rune distribution is completely at odds with what's stated in the guide, but that doesn't make it a bad idea. One option I don't see mentioned is phase rush, which could be great for kog since he has to stay at an appropriate distance, and it would generally help with his ability to kite and harass safely both in and out of lane. Then you take manaflow band, take transcendence to reduce the cd on your e, (it partially refunds your cds for a kill or assist after level 11 now, which is great when you consider how much power and utility his e provides) and scorch because it's the least terrible rune in that row. (who the hell takes waterwalking XD ) Then in the precision tree you take presence of mind for mana, and coup de grace because it synergizes with your ult by amplifying execution damage. The best part is that you're not giving up any damage by doing this because none of the runes listed by the guide do much for damage. (not a criticism, just pointing this out. As a side note, the clarity spell doesn't exist anymore outside aram but is still listed on the unsealed spellbook spoiler)

Or you could just swap out the resolve tree for the precision tree because adding a negligible amount of armor and HP doesn't actually help kog with being long range artillery, or even a mid-range mage. May as well have more mana and an execution damage amp instead.

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Precision + Sorcery isn't a bad choice, but it's not also not my favored choice.

1. I tested Phase Rush quite a lot prior, and found it underwhelming. I couldn't get it to activate when I needed it to (except like once or twice in the laning phase), and later on in the match when it was activating, it usually made no difference in the overall outcome of a fight. It wasn't useless, but generally wasn't making a meaningful impact.

2. Kog is only mana hungry if you exceed the barrage limit regularly. Otherwise, the amount of mana with biscuits and Manamune (which is now in the build order) is enough as long as the reserve bullets aren't dipped into regularly. Getting more mana options will only allow like, 1-3 extra shots later in the match because of the sheer amount of mana it takes to dip into the reserve.

3. Clarity is an option that can be picked from Unsealed Spellbook

4. I find the opposite to be true, that the amount of mana and damage added is largely negligible enough that I prefer having 15% more effective HP instead.

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I find that the new presence of mind is a must have for me when I am in teamfights because it gives me 1 or 2 extra bullets to clean up the fight every takedown. I also use it to sustain myself in the early lane by using the w for extra range sustained poke to refill mana.

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What do you think about RoA? I do it sometimes, vs burst comps

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Not much a fan of it. It slows down an already-slow build and raw AP isn't even a great stat for AP Kog. Would rather continue building up to the more magic-pen oriented choices instead.

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Kog'maw is disgusting, although he really is an interesting champion
I didn't read your guide thoroughly because I am not planning to play this champion whatsoever, but again, I know your other guides as I have commented, so I know that this will be useful for my friends and probably will share it with them :>

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I've been playing with some AP kog builds in the latest patch, and I have to say, I think you're underestimating ludens. With the previous iteration I'd agree it's not worth it, but the changes to the way the ult scales with missing HP makes it invaluable, I think. Ludens doesn't by itself result in a stellar DPS increase, but having the first shot deal more damage in turn amplifies the damage of the next one, sometimes by up to 20-30%. This can be the difference between killing someone in three shots and four, and with the exponential mana scaling, that's a huge difference. And the extra MS is just a cherry on top.

Granted, the lack of access to chaining is a big issue, and sometimes it's better to go for rylai's earlier due to the giant's belt buildup, and you'll still want to grab it second. But I think ludens synergizes perfectly with the way the ult has been changed to work.

My full build comes down to usually Sorc shoes, Ludens, Rylais, Void Staff, Archangels, Liandry/Defense/Nashor's Tooth.
With Full penetration quints to make up for Liandry's, rather than MS, since Ludens handles that.

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Sorry for the late reply! I think you're right that with the scaling execution, Ludens has more value for AP Kog than before. I think the next question that comes up is: how much more? I'm going to run some math on it, and if it's now more gold/dmg efficient than Guise/Liandrys/VoidStaff, it very well could be worth looking at! Thanks for bringing this up!

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Hell, is AP kog even viable after this patch? I figure that the E nerf isn't tremendous, but the rylais nerf is massive. I don't even know if it's core at this point anymore.

As for damage, while guise/liandrys/voidstaff gives more penetration and/or % HP damage, usually the targets you want to snipe with AP kog, especially in the midgame around the lvl 11 power spike, are pretty squishy. Ludens gives a flat boost to damage earlier on, so that synergizes with the spike. In addition, ADCs and stuff don't tend to build tremendous MR often, and certainly not early, thus negating the benefits of MPen, since with Sorc Shoes, masteries, and Pen runes you'll be hitting 30 Pen without any other items.

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I'll need more time to field test whether Rylais allows for chaining to a reliable degree still. Can't really tell its impact otherwise.

Most enemies run some kinds of MR glyphs, and Liandrys still does better gold/dmg with the ultimate even without having to rely much on its magic penetration; the burn is just that good according to the math.

Diamond AP Kog'maw - Acid Reign [25.04]

Diamond AP Kog'maw - Acid Reign [25.04]

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