Counterpicking and Match-ups, Week 1: Lee Sin

[quote=Cervance]Okay everyone, I'd like to gather as much information here as possible. This will be an on-going project, with the goal of determining every champion's winning and losing match-ups, both in lane and in teamfights. Only 5v5 Summoner's Rift will be discussed here. Our first week is dedicated to perhaps one of the most powerful champions in the League, [[Lee Sin]]. [[Lee Sin]] Passive: [[Flurry]] Q: [[Sonic Wave / Resonating Strike]] W: [[Safeguard / Iron Will]] E: [[Tempest / Cripple]] Ultimate: [[Dragon's Rage]] Winning Match-ups: Counters: Soft Counters: Please discuss. Remember to stay on topic, and give logical reasons to arguments about whom Lee Sin loses to or defeats. Also remember that this discussion only includes 5v5 on Summoner's Rift.[/quote]

[quote=PotatisFarfar]Lee sin wins against all in jungle, that's for sure.[/quote]

[quote=NicknameMy]No, he can't win against [[trundle]] if he fully control his jungle. He also removes some of his AD and tankyness, which makes him pretty vulnerable.[/quote]

[quote=Mastarwe][quote=PotatisFarfar] Lee sin wins against all in jungle, that's for sure. [/quote] except for [[Udyr]][/quote]

[quote=BusDriver210]A couple of ways to counter [[Lee Sin]]. [color=red]*Disclaimer* These are simply my opinions on the matter. I don't claim to be some sort of pro or anything.[/color] Getting [[Warden's Mail]] early against Lee Sin is a very strong counter pick. His burst is definitely scary, but he depends on auto attacks to deal enough damage for the kill. Dodging is pretty self explanatory. Juke between minions and avoid his Q at all costs. Lee Sin really depends on his Q for damage. [[Udyr]] is a strong fighter in general and does fairly well against Lee Sin. It really all depends on if Lee Sin will straight out fight you, or harass you down. In a jungle encounter situation I would put my money on Udyr. On top of his dodge he has a repeating stun, shield, burst as well as a strong auto attack. *more to come*[/quote]

[quote=Lugignaf]Lee sin will win every matchup VS a "clumpy" team. I.E. Amumu, Galio, Singed. People who have to get close to do stuff. He's a nice counter to Akali because of [[Tempest/Cripple]]. Slows+ on-command blinks are a nice way to beat Lee. Also, free range poking is good too. Maokai and Kog'Maw come to mind. They have nice harass with no chance to get close unless they want to.[/quote]

[quote=Calibern]If he's solo top I find Garen to be an effective counter. Garen shuts down lee sin's skill by using his silence, and he'll probably dash away after the silence is over. Garen's e makes lee sin's slow useless, and Garen doesn't rely on auto attacks to do damage so the attack speed debuff isn't that noticeable. In the jungle Udyr, Trundle, and Warwick are the only people I can think of who can stop him. Warwick is a bit of a stretch, but its doable.[/quote]

[quote=Cervance]For the record, if you have to build an item that is sub-par in order to win the match-up, then the champion is not a counter or even soft counter. The Champion must counter Lee Sin by nature of their abilities. So far we have listed, in no particular order: Countering lane [[Lee Sin]]: [[Garen]], [[Maokai]], [[Kog'Maw]] Countering jungle [[Lee Sin]]: [[Trundle]], [[Udyr]] [[Lee Sin]] counters: [[Akali]], [[Amumu]], [[Galio]], [[Singed]]. People who have to get close to do stuff. Late Game counters: [[Kog'Maw]], [[Trundle]] I'm hesitant to list any jungling counters to Lee Sin. Lee Sin isn't someone you can counter by choosing a stronger jungler. [[Trundle]] and [[Udyr]] seems like even match-ups due to equal sustain and clearing speed. I'd like to take the focus from beating [[Lee Sin]] in jungle or lane, and into beating [[Lee Sin]] AS a lane. Which mid, bot, and top champions would we take to specifically shut down [[Lee Sin]] throughout the game? (assuming he is jungle)[/quote]

[quote=Lugignaf]Singed IMO. I know I listed him as a countered champ to Lee Sin but, he's also stellar at beating him. The fling can throw off the skillshots he has and keeps him away from your team.[/quote]