Garen, the one left behind.

[quote=oddnerd]I used to play Garen and rock faces. Someone mentioned "old champion syndrome" which is exactly what I would call it. Just like Magic: the Gathering, the developers of LoL seem to feel like they are in an arms race to 1-up each other with each champion release. Characters who used to be strong are now fairly useless because they haven't been a part of the evolution that others characters have undergone, or new characters have been born in to. In magic 6 mana used to get you a 4/4 creature, now it gets you a card that says "you win the game". I feel like this occurs in LoL to a certain degree.[/quote]

[quote=FalseoGod][quote=JEFFY40HANDS] Not everyone has a hard on for garen. [/quote] Lies. His penis comes from heaven, how can you not get hard from such a divine dickdunk? On a sidenote, "stable" (those who do it often) early game facestompers like [[Garen]] and [[Rumble]] tend to fall off lategame. I recommend re-buffing [[Rumble]] for this. --//-- oddnerd, MTG's powercreep is finally getting a more visible leash. Soon, playing other spells besides creatures will be viable again. My hope's on Return to Ravnica, haven't played MTG for real since the Giant's were printed.[/quote]

[quote=Xenotechie][quote=oddnerd] I used to play Garen and rock faces. Someone mentioned "old champion syndrome" which is exactly what I would call it. Just like Magic: the Gathering, the developers of LoL seem to feel like they are in an arms race to 1-up each other with each champion release. Characters who used to be strong are now fairly useless because they haven't been a part of the evolution that others characters have undergone, or new characters have been born in to. In magic 6 mana used to get you a 4/4 creature, now it gets you a card that says "you win the game". I feel like this occurs in LoL to a certain degree. [/quote] It's not THAT severe. What's happening in Magic is something called "power creep".[url=http://penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/power-creep] Here's[/url] a video for the concept. Now, what happened with [[Garen]] is that he got designed in a different metagame. It is a bit of power creep, but he can be easily rebalanced with some buffs. He is only slightly UP and still very viable in some matchups.[/quote]

[quote=NicknameMy][quote=OTGBionicArm] [[Garen]] shits on [[Darius]]. But [[Darius]] actually scales into late game where [[Garen]] doesn't. He needs a slight endgame buff. [/quote] Which would true dmg on ult and armorpen do. True dmg for earlygame is with the dmg reduction even more a form of a nerf than a buff.[/quote]

[quote=OTGBionicArm]I just think they need to change his values at later ranks of his skills so he keeps up in damage.[/quote]

[quote=NicknameMy]He already has ridiculous base dmg and scaling. Judgment even scales with crit. The thing, which counters Garen lategame hard, is armor. The only thing that maybe should be buffed is the ad-ratio on judgment to 1.5(*3=4.5). But that could be already to much for earlygame. A way to change judgment in some way, is lowering the duration, lowering the cd and increasing the dmg dealted per second. This way it could be used more flexible. And then, it doesn't kill you in 1 skill combo earlygame. Duration: 2 seconds CD: 11/10/9/8/7 60/115/170/225/280(+1.8 bonus AD) per second 120/230/340/450/560(+3.6 bonus AD) total dmg ticks every 0.25 seconds(So it isn't easy to deal full dmg, also more reliable dmg) 50% reduced dmg to minons, not monsters removing slow effects on cast and no slow effects while duration(because the duration is lower, this seems better) All DMG can crit(This change let this ability scale harder into lategame)[/quote]

[quote=ZioSerpe]Garen is way tankier than darius by nature. That said yes Darius is stronger currently, but both of them give you just what you see, an amazingly straightforward easy champ. Kinda feel like I went off the road there, anyway, wanna make garen closer to darius? Nerf Darius.[/quote]

[quote=NicknameMy]Well, if you anyhow nerf [[Darius]], he will be as unviable as [[Garen]].[/quote]

[quote=JEFFY40HANDS][quote=OTGBionicArm] [[Garen]] shits on [[Darius]]. But [[Darius]] actually scales into late game where [[Garen]] doesn't. He needs a slight endgame buff. [/quote] The quickest way to bring Garen in line is simple. Improve Q scaling but make the silence duration increase with rank as opposed to being flat 3 or so seconds level 1. Make judgement scale off of bonus AD rather than crit chance (last i checked it was crit chance that gave it extra damage or something like that)at 150 percent. Meaning 10 bonus ad gives judgement additional 15 ad. Greatly diminish the cool down on Garen's ultimate, and make it physical opposed to magic based...as far as i remember his ultimate does magic damage. That way he can actually benefit from arp. Oh and decrease the shield scaling or whatever. That might bring garen in line.[/quote]

[quote=H4xDefender][quote=JEFFY40HANDS] [quote=OTGBionicArm] [[Garen]] shits on [[Darius]]. But [[Darius]] actually scales into late game where [[Garen]] doesn't. He needs a slight endgame buff. [/quote] The quickest way to bring Garen in line is simple. Improve Q scaling but make the silence duration increase with rank as opposed to being flat 3 or so seconds level 1. Make judgement scale off of bonus AD rather than crit chance (last i checked it was crit chance that gave it extra damage or something like that)at 150 percent. Meaning 10 bonus ad gives judgement additional 15 ad. Greatly diminish the cool down on Garen's ultimate, and make it physical opposed to magic based...as far as i remember his ultimate does magic damage. That way he can actually benefit from arp. Oh and decrease the shield scaling or whatever. That might bring garen in line. [/quote] Shield doesnt have real scaling, judgment already scales off ad, the fact that it can crit too is its bonus. Q already has 1.4 scaling off total ad, and you want to buff that of all things? Making Q silence go up with levels would either make it op or it would be a nerf... its 2.5 at all levels, either you give it .25 every level making it over 3 seconds which is ridic, or you nerf it. Garen's ult finishes people well BECAUSE it does magic damage. People stack heavy armor vs garen already, this would be an overall nerf to his damage. Srsly go look up SOMETHING before you post that its a "simple fix." Pretty much your whole post is inaccurate.[/quote]