We'll see now.
Are you gonna credit in any way ppl that gave most to the community? I mean are you going to leave the "medals" idea alive? Or you lvl down everything to absolutly 0.
This might be huting to ppl like Me, Heat or Alahric and some others that took so much effort and contributed in the community for so long time. Keeping a guide up to date at all times, is harder job that making one. Yes we want to check which builds are atm best but also ppl that were keeping their builds best for some time and putting constant effort into them will be lvled to 0.
Yea we know it is kinda selfish (i feel like beeing selfish and egocentric) but it is how i feel about it.
I agree that "We are comparing builds to each other and as such the scores should be relative, they should be on the same scale." But is it comparable that this particular build was valid updated, changed, moderated, edited to newest best looking and best readable layouts for a year is the same as the guide som1 posted 1 day ago, based on your guide but with 1 change?
any1 other is feeling the same? :) sry for being so straightforward.
ugh ugh and one more thing.
profile score still shows old values.
http://www.mobafire.com/profile/dewo-401
Are you gonna credit in any way ppl that gave most to the community? I mean are you going to leave the "medals" idea alive? Or you lvl down everything to absolutly 0.
This might be huting to ppl like Me, Heat or Alahric and some others that took so much effort and contributed in the community for so long time. Keeping a guide up to date at all times, is harder job that making one. Yes we want to check which builds are atm best but also ppl that were keeping their builds best for some time and putting constant effort into them will be lvled to 0.
Yea we know it is kinda selfish (i feel like beeing selfish and egocentric) but it is how i feel about it.
I agree that "We are comparing builds to each other and as such the scores should be relative, they should be on the same scale." But is it comparable that this particular build was valid updated, changed, moderated, edited to newest best looking and best readable layouts for a year is the same as the guide som1 posted 1 day ago, based on your guide but with 1 change?
any1 other is feeling the same? :) sry for being so straightforward.
ugh ugh and one more thing.
profile score still shows old values.
http://www.mobafire.com/profile/dewo-401
Straightforward is good :)
We are still fleshing out the medals/trophies idea, we will expand on it at some point for sure, just a matter of when. I can tell you that for monthly medals, we will not award the same build more than once. However we will likely have other kinds of trophies not based on the month the build was published in. As for how to handle builds that reset themselves, we'll have to decide when we come to that. However the builds shown on the homepage in the sidebar that won medals in their respective months based on the old score system will not have them taken away - you've already won and that's that :)
The medals system will eventually provide more reward for veteran builds. We haven't spent a lot of time yet planning it but we have some good ideas, which will likely include displaying your trophies and medals under your avatar on all your comments.
We are not forcing anyone to reset their scores. It is completely optional. We only provide the option for those that feel like "the damage is done" and want their build to start over. You can also choose to reset some builds and leave others, it's up to you.
As for the fact that a new build could trump your veteran build, our hope is that this would only actually happen if this new build was genuinely preferred. If that is the case, it wouldn't be any more fair for us to punish them for being new, would it? Additionally, the browse page makes it easy to find builds with lots of discussion, views, etc... Which will favor older, more frequently updated builds.
All that being said, the various build lists on the site are still under consideration, especially the homepage. We have not changed them yet but we have discussed several ideas. We are always open to suggestions.
Edit: The medals and trophies will also likely not be restricted purely to builds. There will be other special things to reward our biggest contributors and most active members, and those that have stuck with us all this time!
We are still fleshing out the medals/trophies idea, we will expand on it at some point for sure, just a matter of when. I can tell you that for monthly medals, we will not award the same build more than once. However we will likely have other kinds of trophies not based on the month the build was published in. As for how to handle builds that reset themselves, we'll have to decide when we come to that. However the builds shown on the homepage in the sidebar that won medals in their respective months based on the old score system will not have them taken away - you've already won and that's that :)
The medals system will eventually provide more reward for veteran builds. We haven't spent a lot of time yet planning it but we have some good ideas, which will likely include displaying your trophies and medals under your avatar on all your comments.
We are not forcing anyone to reset their scores. It is completely optional. We only provide the option for those that feel like "the damage is done" and want their build to start over. You can also choose to reset some builds and leave others, it's up to you.
As for the fact that a new build could trump your veteran build, our hope is that this would only actually happen if this new build was genuinely preferred. If that is the case, it wouldn't be any more fair for us to punish them for being new, would it? Additionally, the browse page makes it easy to find builds with lots of discussion, views, etc... Which will favor older, more frequently updated builds.
All that being said, the various build lists on the site are still under consideration, especially the homepage. We have not changed them yet but we have discussed several ideas. We are always open to suggestions.
Edit: The medals and trophies will also likely not be restricted purely to builds. There will be other special things to reward our biggest contributors and most active members, and those that have stuck with us all this time!
Also wanted to mention, if someone clicks "copy build", your build will be credited when others view the new build. Right now the display is not obvious but if this is something that is happening a lot we can make it much more clearly identified. So if someone copies your build, makes some minor changes, and manages to get voted better... Your build and name will still be credited if they used the button.
We could also go in after and add the credit if it's clear someone copied you but they didn't use the button.
We could also go in after and add the credit if it's clear someone copied you but they didn't use the button.
You know, the old score method is still flawed.
There hasn't yet been a singel "justified" negative vote on one of our guides!
Now I don't really know if people have changed, but I've been getting more negatives votes than I can count over the past weeks ever since I updated my Taric and Mordekaiser guide to look "nice", but also some +1's and I appriciate that alot :). Yet there hasn't been a single comment on what's wrong with the guide, I think you should enforce comments and mark them as negative votes for the author to know why! If it's spam one should be able to report it. Even then if I update the guide for the reason it was given a negative vote, does the negative vote still justify the guide that I updated? NO! The guide got a negative vote for something the author updated, which means the error does not exist -> which means the negative vote should not exist! It's yet another dilema..
How about 5 star rating? Then mark "how many votes" as how popular the guide is.
* - Delete, spam!
** - Poor effort!
*** - Works fine!
**** - Good job!
***** - Perfect!
This way we can also determine how good the layout, the writing, and how good the actual play-style the guide encourages is!
Or perhaps you would want one to rate all of the three elements within a guide? Then how many votes and views will determine how popular the guide is!
I'm just saying, if one tip gets 100% and is "obviously" better than an actual guide..
Then something is indeed ****ed up about the new ratings, get me now?
http://www.mobafire.com/league-of-legends/build/ryze-the-ultimate-rage-8689
PS: It's an ok item-build, but.. well.. you get the point right?
There hasn't yet been a singel "justified" negative vote on one of our guides!
Now I don't really know if people have changed, but I've been getting more negatives votes than I can count over the past weeks ever since I updated my Taric and Mordekaiser guide to look "nice", but also some +1's and I appriciate that alot :). Yet there hasn't been a single comment on what's wrong with the guide, I think you should enforce comments and mark them as negative votes for the author to know why! If it's spam one should be able to report it. Even then if I update the guide for the reason it was given a negative vote, does the negative vote still justify the guide that I updated? NO! The guide got a negative vote for something the author updated, which means the error does not exist -> which means the negative vote should not exist! It's yet another dilema..
How about 5 star rating? Then mark "how many votes" as how popular the guide is.
* - Delete, spam!
** - Poor effort!
*** - Works fine!
**** - Good job!
***** - Perfect!
This way we can also determine how good the layout, the writing, and how good the actual play-style the guide encourages is!
Or perhaps you would want one to rate all of the three elements within a guide? Then how many votes and views will determine how popular the guide is!
I'm just saying, if one tip gets 100% and is "obviously" better than an actual guide..
Then something is indeed ****ed up about the new ratings, get me now?
http://www.mobafire.com/league-of-legends/build/ryze-the-ultimate-rage-8689
PS: It's an ok item-build, but.. well.. you get the point right?
aethidd
<Member>
<Member>
This is a really cool change for a new user like me, with the old system I feel that after I wrote my first guide that I had kind of missed the boat a little bit and that because I had joined so recently and there was already other dominant guides out there then why would anyone pay any attention to mine no matter how in depth and professional looking I made it.
Thanks to this new change I feel like anything I write now will have more of a chance to get noticed and this is awesome for me.
I understand Dewo's argument though and can see how this new system puts a downer on all their hard work and input they have added to the site. It's a tricky situation.
Still, thumbs up from the long time lurker who's just begun to post here, for what it's worth.
Thanks to this new change I feel like anything I write now will have more of a chance to get noticed and this is awesome for me.
I understand Dewo's argument though and can see how this new system puts a downer on all their hard work and input they have added to the site. It's a tricky situation.
Still, thumbs up from the long time lurker who's just begun to post here, for what it's worth.
aethidd wrote:
This is a really cool change for a new user like me, with the old system I feel that after I wrote my first guide that I had kind of missed the boat a little bit and that because I had joined so recently and there was already other dominant guides out there then why would anyone pay any attention to mine no matter how in depth and professional looking I made it.
Thanks to this new change I feel like anything I write now will have more of a chance to get noticed and this is awesome for me.
I understand Dewo's argument though and can see how this new system puts a downer on all their hard work and input they have added to the site. It's a tricky situation.
Still, thumbs up from the long time lurker who's just begun to post here, for what it's worth.
It's downright MOBAfire abuse, that's basically what is is. They negative vote it because they are jealous, I should know!
aethidd
<Member>
<Member>
I get you completely, I believe the system is flawed but I was just giving my two cents as a new user. Your solution is a good one, which in theory should work but then again, if someone want's to be a douche bag they can still down vote and add a sentence along the lines of "**** build, lol!" and with the amount of builds/comments being posted each day then it would be hard to regulate.
The stars system sounds like it would work quite well, but I have seen a lot of online communities including youtube ditch this system for the upvote/downvote system. I've no idea why but there must be something to it.
The stars system sounds like it would work quite well, but I have seen a lot of online communities including youtube ditch this system for the upvote/downvote system. I've no idea why but there must be something to it.
Crazy idea... What about removing the rating at all? Leaving only Comments/Views?
Only option is to "Like it" like on Facebook that would have nothing to do with any score, could not be filtered but it would count for a "publicity medal" or something.
This has a side effect of making old guides prio, but you delt with that with implementing that 30day stuff.
Instead of best ranked (last 30 days) guide it would say "Hottest Build" to this with most comments or views. (this would require filtering number of views from a single IP adress tho :/)
Or a sollution that requires moderators, making "Worth seeing" tag for moderators that will last for 2 weeks on interesing builds that are not pure spam. This system would encourage ppl to pay attension to their builds, and will credit the ppl that accualy put effort into making a build/guide.
Tbh... there is no SUPER sollution to the issue i think... we have to experiment but with the state it is now... like Ala said... we will be stuck with:
http://www.mobafire.com/league-of-legends/build/veigar-dark-hado-updated-1646
or
http://www.mobafire.com/league-of-legends/build/blitztank-2-0-3688
As top ranked guides of all time... not sayin that they are bad :P
On a situation when the top tanked builds of all time be4 change are stuck at place more or less 'ish 150+ :)
Only option is to "Like it" like on Facebook that would have nothing to do with any score, could not be filtered but it would count for a "publicity medal" or something.
This has a side effect of making old guides prio, but you delt with that with implementing that 30day stuff.
Instead of best ranked (last 30 days) guide it would say "Hottest Build" to this with most comments or views. (this would require filtering number of views from a single IP adress tho :/)
Or a sollution that requires moderators, making "Worth seeing" tag for moderators that will last for 2 weeks on interesing builds that are not pure spam. This system would encourage ppl to pay attension to their builds, and will credit the ppl that accualy put effort into making a build/guide.
Tbh... there is no SUPER sollution to the issue i think... we have to experiment but with the state it is now... like Ala said... we will be stuck with:
http://www.mobafire.com/league-of-legends/build/veigar-dark-hado-updated-1646
or
http://www.mobafire.com/league-of-legends/build/blitztank-2-0-3688
As top ranked guides of all time... not sayin that they are bad :P
On a situation when the top tanked builds of all time be4 change are stuck at place more or less 'ish 150+ :)
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The following changes have been made:
Before you get upset over such a sweeping change, please consider the advantages offered by a normalized score. We are comparing builds to each other and as such the scores should be relative, they should be on the same scale. Now more votes does not mean a higher cumulative score, instead it means a more accurate score. This also allows us to compare old builds with new builds fairly. The old scoring method, where higher cumulated scores mattered, did not necessarily bring the best builds to the top.
You may initially be frustrated to see a lot of builds showing scores of 100%. We have restricted certain lists to exclude builds below a threshold number of votes to make this less of an issue. In other places, these builds with low vote counts and a high normalized score have not yet had much exposure. Now that they are getting more exposure, they will receive more votes, and the scores will become more accurate. Over time everything should balance out.
Due to all of these changes, as well as concerns people may have over past negative voting, we have implemented a one-time vote reset feature. I am going to flag every single build created before this moment to enable this reset. You can go to any of your own builds and find a link at the top titled "reset all votes". Clicking this will delete all votes, set your score to 0 and reset your publish date to that moment. It will be as if your build is brand new, although the comments will still be there. You can only do this once and it is permanent, we cannot reverse it once you have reset your score on a build. Feel free to make use of this feature, or if you prefer you can wait a bit to see how this new system works out.
This one-time score reset will only be offered until August 18th at midnight PST.
Please share your opinion using the new polls in the sidebar here and there, or the feedback forms, or by replying to this thread.