The Nerfstick is here.

[quote=Forgottenduty]So, the tides of nerf have arrived. What's your opinion on these changes? Do they seem fair/wise to you? What would you suggest? As for my opinion, [[Diana]]'s huge nerf on her laning phase will make her extremely difficult to lane agaist most ranged champions now, while they could have instead fixed a bit of her insane mid/late game damage where she could just kill anyone. Also, the fact that [[Elise]] now get's no extra resistances in spider form will discurage using that form a lot, while I guess they could tone down her insane damage potential instead. And seing this after the same happened to [[Nidalee]] I guess [[Jayce]] could be the next one to get nerfed on that area. And after all these nerfs on [[Zed]]'s abilities which one would you rather max out first if you play him? Are all these nerfs to early game damage based on the fact that the starting items suck atm? Food for thought.[/quote]

[quote=Thalia Kael]The only only champion that I really play that got hit is MF, and I think that her nerf will mostly go unnoticed / hurt her early game[/quote]

[quote=Joshified]Okay, here we go :3 (rant) [[Zed]] nerfs were so overdue, he hits way too hard for his own good and his early game lane pushing was just insane, the cooldown on his e will be perfect for him. Also, to answer your question, maxing e is still the best way to go on him. The AOE slow, plus instant damage, plus reliability is too good to miss out on. [[Diana]] nerfs, YAY! Her laning phase was too strong, the designed her to be weak pre six, yet she was still terrifying and could easily pick up a kill regardless of you being a ranged champion or not. [[Elise]] changes are great, it rewards a 'high risk, high reward' playstyle. Makes you have to be a bit more careful when diving on carries with your spider form, it will also make her level 6 tower dives weaker, which is quite nice. C: [[Caitlyn]] took a decent beating to her early tower pushing, but yet again, this was necessary for the competitive scene, as she was just picked for early tower pressure, which promoted no real counter play and was just annoying to deal with ;_; [[Miss fortune]] isn't going to be anything less really, though it will ton down her early laning phase a bit, which is also something that needed to be addressed. I am also lking the look of a lot of the little buffs going around! [[Cassiopeia]]'s twin fang not procing [[Rylai's crystal scepter]] as a single target move will be a lovely little buff to her minimal cc skill set (besides ult)! [[Nunu]] buffs also look like they will be a ton of fun. Encouraging him to jungle and giving him early/late game for free? Can't wait to see willump back in action. [[Nami]]'s buffs also look pretty neat. (/rant)[/quote]

[quote=Forgottenduty]I agree with most that you said Joshified, but i still feel sad about the [[Diana]] nerfs :( I am not sure if she will be unplayable now(already was destroying her with [[Ahri]], [[Jayce]], [[Brand]] and stuff), but we'll just have to wait and see I guess.[/quote]

[quote=GrandmasterD][quote=Joshified] Okay, here we go :3 (rant) [[Zed]] nerfs were so overdue, he hits way too hard for his own good and his early game lane pushing was just insane, the cooldown on his e will be perfect for him. Also, to answer your question, maxing e is still the best way to go on him. The AOE slow, plus instant damage, plus reliability is too good to miss out on. [[Diana]] nerfs, YAY! Her laning phase was too strong, the designed her to be weak pre six, yet she was still terrifying and could easily pick up a kill regardless of you being a ranged champion or not. [[Elise]] changes are great, it rewards a 'high risk, high reward' playstyle. Makes you have to be a bit more careful when diving on carries with your spider form, it will also make her level 6 tower dives weaker, which is quite nice. C: [[Caitlyn]] took a decent beating to her early tower pushing, but yet again, this was necessary for the competitive scene, as she was just picked for early tower pressure, which promoted no real counter play and was just annoying to deal with ;_; [[Miss fortune]] isn't going to be anything less really, though it will ton down her early laning phase a bit, which is also something that needed to be addressed. I am also lking the look of a lot of the little buffs going around! [[Cassiopeia]]'s twin fang not procing [[Rylai's crystal scepter]] as a single target move will be a lovely little buff to her minimal cc skill set (besides ult)! [[Nunu]] buffs also look like they will be a ton of fun. Encouraging him to jungle and giving him early/late game for free? Can't wait to see willump back in action. [[Nami]]'s buffs also look pretty neat. (/rant) [/quote] Zed nerfs were necessary and I still believe he's gonna be way too strong. Maxing E is dumb in general, cripples your burst. Max Q also severerly increases farming capability. It also lowers the energy cost and cool down but sure a slow is much better on an assassin.... sigh Diana is not completely OP but darn freaking strong, still can't decide if this is a hard nerf or not. Sure her damage drops a little but her tankiness goes up in cluttered teamfights. Elise changes are nice but I doubt it will really modify her current strength. It's a late-game buff, that's for sure. Huge nerf on Caitlyn, still viable but it's a huge nerf. Slightly lower burst on MF and more extended damage, don't think it alters her position on the tier list. Cassio just got a QoL change that needed to happen a long time ago. Nunu changes look weird, fun but weird. Hopefully I no longer see lane nunu's, they are just annoying as fuck. Nami buffs are alright but far from enough. You're still gonna be fucked if your enemy somehow dodges [[Aqua Prison]]. [[Quickdraw]] and [[90 Caliber Net]] come to mind. Passive needed a buff but mostly, she's still freaking squishy with an ultimate that is not as impactful as it should be. Just go Sona instead.[/quote]

[quote=Forgottenduty][quote] GrandmasterD wrote: Zed nerfs were necessary and I still believe he's gonna be way too strong. Maxing E is dumb in general, cripples your burst. Max Q also severerly increases farming capability. It also lowers the energy cost and cool down but sure a slow is much better on an assassin.... sigh [/quote] Tbh, I've tried a lot of times to figure out if Q or E works better, and for some reason E felt a lot better and I just couldn't figure out why :/ Also, E has better wave clear since you can kill all ranged minions with x2E while q has more cd and after the nerf it deals even less damage in consecutive targets. Please show me the light GrandmasterD![/quote]

[quote=GrandmasterD][quote=Forgottenduty] [quote] GrandmasterD wrote: Zed nerfs were necessary and I still believe he's gonna be way too strong. Maxing E is dumb in general, cripples your burst. Max Q also severerly increases farming capability. It also lowers the energy cost and cool down but sure a slow is much better on an assassin.... sigh [/quote] Tbh, I've tried a lot of times to figure out if Q or E works better, and for some reason E felt a lot better and I just couldn't figure out why :/ Also, E has better wave clear since you can kill all ranged minions with x2E while q has more cd and after the nerf it deals even less damage in consecutive targets. Please show me the light GrandmasterD! [/quote] Additional E's do not deal additional damage, Q's do. Hence, if you max E first, your overall burst will drop dramatically. On waveclearing it might not make a huge difference though you're probably gonna be needing 2 E's instead of one Q. Additionally, Q allows for ranged last-hitting and harassing.[/quote]

[quote=Forgottenduty]I'll read your guide I guess, although you've archived it for some reason :/[/quote]

[quote=GrandmasterD][quote=Forgottenduty] I'll read your guide I guess, although you've archived it for some reason :/ [/quote] Was no longer up to date and had stuff to do. Rewritten version will arrive soon.[/quote]

[quote=Wayne3100]*facepalm* Maxing E is not "dumb in general". Just because you prefer one way of playing a champ doesn't mean every other way is automatically bad. The advantages of maxing E are that it is more reliable to hit, easier at waveclearing (yes, this can be done with Q too, but the advantage Q gives over E is that it is ranged and you can use it to poke, in which case you might not always be hitting all minions as well as your enemy laner), has a lower cooldown and lower energy cost. Placing the shadow in a place where the enemy laner has to cs will also often guarantee hitting E twice (or having the opponent miss cs for backing off). Note that I'm talking about the pre-nerf [[Zed]] here. The cooldown increase from E might make double E harder to use, since the shadow should only last 4 seconds iirc. Anyway, both have their uses. Personally I max Q mid or against anything ranged top (because landing E against a ranged character is a lot harder than against melee) and E against melee top laners.[/quote]