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Creator: H4xDefender
July 29, 2012 3:29pm
10 posts page 1 of 1 Forums » Theory Crafting & Ideation » Counter Meta
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep | Commend by H4xDefender » July 29, 2012 3:29pm | Report
Well i've been thinking a lot about how to beat the current meta, and I've been wondering how an ad carry + support lane would work in both and top and bot to counter a team running the current metagame. Yes there are champions like yorick who can handle 1v2s somewhat effectively, but they are not going to have nearly enough gold to be a huge threat, and it isn't easy either. (See westrice yorick/vlad 1v2 lanes vs legion/4not in ipl face off quals).

Having no smite presence and no jungle pressure could be a problem, but you could take nunu to cover the smite, a tf/ahri midlane to provide reasonable pressure, have the ad + support take buffs at level 1 and maybe even the small camps once or twice before backing and keep buffs warded to collapse on any cocky enemy jungler. This lacks someone who can effectively kill an enemy carry, but honestly if you picked 2 strong peelers like alistar/nunu, you don't need to to kill the enemy carry, just keep both or at least one of yours safe to decimate quicker then the other teams can. The jungler will have free roam in your jungle, but if played correctly you could secure buffs easily, and with 2 supports you will have plenty of ward coverage. Sorry if this is a bit wall of texty but thoughts?
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep | Commend by DuffTime » July 29, 2012 4:18pm | Report
Yorick doesn't need to get farmed. He can always ult a fed ADC and be more effective late game than the other team's bruiser.
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep | Commend by H4xDefender » July 29, 2012 4:47pm | Report
Thats assuming he lives through the AoE with no items and there is an ad carry worth ulting but yeah I suppose.
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep | Commend by lifebaka » July 29, 2012 4:54pm | Report
Statistically speaking, teams with junglers tend to beat teams without junglers.
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep | Commend by DuffTime » July 29, 2012 5:43pm | Report
Jungler is just kind of a must have. It can be a roaming jungler or a more farmy jungler, but it's nice to have one.
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep | Commend by Acid Reigns » July 29, 2012 5:53pm | Report
Doing the m5 adc + supp top, and having your top go bot is probably better.
Of course it only works if your solo is better at holding a 1v2 than theirs, but obviously you would only pick this when it's advantageous.
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep | Commend by Pheyniex » July 29, 2012 7:04pm | Report
I can only see one way of breaking this meta: its basics are the principles of who to gank but instead of having 1+1+2+j you can try 1+1+1+j+CJ. meaning you have top, mid, jungle, 1 botlaner and one constant counterjungler.

I saw it once. Some guy playing Nunu dedicating himself only to couterjungle and roaming. shoud be great to negate the jungler. however, this will only probably work against lesser tier junglers. Also, it would imply moving your ADC somewhere else, since he will hardly handle a 2v1 situation. ALso, I'm considering you really need a ADC.

Furthermore, the dedicated counterjungler would have to be a very high mobility, good duelist or very tanky, and fast counterjungler. AS you may notice, this represents very few options.
This is a very situational strategy. If you run into a bulky team, you'll have problems.

BTW. The "meta" will hardly change. I belive you only consider the meta as 1+1+2+j disposition in map, but for me it is also the choice of tankier champs and offtanks/high CC in general.

Very high play focuses on hindering a certain champion. Example: what i mentioned would be very effective if you were up against a jungle Amumu and your laners were very independant. maybe a Stand United once in a while would be fine.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep | Commend by DuffTime » July 29, 2012 7:06pm | Report
Spending a champ spot on a nunu to counterjungle sets your own team back probably about as much as the enemy jungler would get set back o:
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep | Commend by JEFFY40HANDS » July 29, 2012 7:07pm | Report

Doing the m5 adc + supp top, and having your top go bot is probably better.
Of course it only works if your solo is better at holding a 1v2 than theirs, but obviously you would only pick this when it's advantageous.



That's not a meta, it's a strategy of the current one. It is meant to make the enemy top laner weaker by easily denying farm in a 2v1, then ~10 or so minutes in you send your top laner back to top. If your top laner was able to succeed in the 2v1 bot lane by out csing the opposing top or even snagging a kill or assist it makes top lane much easier to snowball in favor of your team. The trick is in the switch, it's basically the turning point for a game that is played with such an opening.

TSM used it in game 2 against MTW.NA.

Meta is an overused term but is generally is meant to reflect the current framework employed in each game of LoL. Currently EU/NA teams use solo top/ap solo mid/jungler/adc+support bot.

The games revolve around each team attempting to establish lane dominance in order to secure buffs or global objectives like dragon and baron nashor. Junglers have taken to a more aggressive approach now attempting to snowball a friendly lane. Snowballing a lane is simply assisting in kills/ganking with results (forcing summoners). The idea is to achieve an early advantage for your lane mate which they then take with them as long as possible.

Additional strats simply involve out pushing your opponents. Using pressure established in any lane by killing or threatening to kill turrets to secure buffs that lane has "control" over. Or by forcing pressure on to the enemy teams turrets/nexus in order to force them to react thereby opening global objectives to be uncontested, rather not contested at full strength.

Currently the 2 solos/1 duo/1 jungler strat is the most effective. The idea being to offer the maximum amount of experience to as many players as possible at any one time. Previous attempts to have 3 solo lanes with 2 roamers or 2 top/1 mid/ 2 bot have failed and proven weaker to the current "meta".

In conclusion, no, 2 supports+2 ads, 1 mid theoretically should not be a viable alternative. The top lane bruiser (who is getting hard-laned in a 2v1) can simply supplement lost farm by buying GP5s and playing conservatively. Their late game power should out scale the AD+Support quickly simply by acquiring higher levels at a faster rate. Additionally without an enemy jungler, your jungler can basically free farm and eventually outscale/level both of the duo lanes.
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep | Commend by Pheyniex » July 30, 2012 11:10am | Report
DuffTime wrote:

Spending a champ spot on a nunu to counterjungle sets your own team back probably about as much as the enemy jungler would get set back o:


i was trying to make a piont that that role had to be filled by champ able to jungle really well and take kills frequently in their jungle. requiring to go around "safely" on ENEMY turf. if if goes well, it will require a laner to quit farming and help take care of the basterd. also would place a strain on enemy map control, probably needing more wards.


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