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So we all know that the MOBA community is awful, nothing to do about that. But what I don't get is, how stupid people can be. And I know that people that ***** to riot are mostly 12 to 15 years old, but this does not limit them to think.
Whenever a patch comes out, everyone talks about it, without thinking. "Oh, the game is ruined, time for HON" -.- really?...I don't want to live on this planet anymore...
Like when the new jax came out, everyone was like, "OMG WHY NERF JAX?" when actually he was buffed in more cases than nerfed. And now people sit quiet.
Now Lee Sin is getting nerfed, and everyone is talking again...ugh :@, Y U NO UNDERSTAND?
Riot have made the best free to play game out there, and most people just spit at their face, IT'S FREE, YOU DO NOT GET THE RIGHT TO COMPLAIN!! I love Riot, and I hate to see them get down-graded, because of a some childish...ahh, nvm
anyway I would like to hear your guys thoughts on the matter
keep owning
Jovoo
I guess this is a problem with the playerbase as whole. Lets look at popular games( I'm not going to use WoW because i played it for a week and got bored with it) for example maplestory. The Playerbase say new characters needed, Nexon mass produced types of characters. Many of the old players left because their previous achievements( like reaching level 200) were being made much easier for newer players and the older classes were much much weaker than the New Classes. It eventually made almost all hardcore/ old players it had leave. But as a result they got an influx of even newer players and the company survived. In the end the companies are most likely going to do what gets them more money.( in the case of WoW and Maplestory make it much more noob friendly).
I would like to say its keeping ballance. everything riot does is an attempt to maintain continued ballance in the game while letting people build their own play style and have a pontentally changing meta. people will qq about this, those people will fall to the bottom the system or leave the game. True players will stay. The problem Nexon had not only with maple story but with there free FPS combat arms is they destroyed the ballance to an almost unfixable point. High elitest gear and weapons that while annoying were and far between and could be focused aganst were given to the masses and almost any level. This results in most every match being a mob of elite weapon spamming and loses the feel and fun of the many aspects of the game. I dont see riot destroying the ballance unreversabily. The only make MASSIVE game altering changes after carefull testing and user feedback. their 2-4 week updates are moderate or tiny tweeks to keep things ballanced and fun. We have a new champions all the time yet there has not been at point in time a total destruction of ballance. OH SNAP FAIL CHAMP it will disapear and not be played much, or YKIES OP OP OP riot fixes it down to size the next patch. They listen to player base but they THINK and they TEST, and then they TEST more, I mean really they even offer the PBE server for players to be able to test possible patch stuff.
Lastly riot has broke into the e-gameing scene and professional tournaments in a big way. This alone will force Riot to be careful not to hurt things at the highest lvl of play and keep elitism there while allowing for and attracting new players. Risking a loss of intrest or skill at the top lvl only hurts riot long term and they see that. But they keep try and keep things right at all levels.
And in all reality Haters will hate........so just let them rage and then kick there butt.
I guess this is a problem with the playerbase as whole. Lets look at popular games( I'm not going to use WoW because i played it for a week and got bored with it) for example maplestory. The Playerbase say new characters needed, Nexon mass produced types of characters. Many of the old players left because their previous achievements( like reaching level 200) were being made much easier for newer players and the older classes were much much weaker than the New Classes. It eventually made almost all hardcore/ old players it had leave. But as a result they got an influx of even newer players and the company survived. In the end the companies are most likely going to do what gets them more money.( in the case of WoW and Maplestory make it much more noob friendly).
Yes, agreed.
Well I guess there isn't much more to say about it really. Tnx for making a great discussion guys, a good read for anyone that is interested in the topic.
So I guess I'll see you guys on the flip side ;)
Now you know what's funny here?
People that you are talking about (giving feedback, being rational) provoke changes.
The people I'm talking about, complain about them.
And yes, yes, you are 100% about the whole "uninstall the game" thing, that's exactly what I mean, and what pisses me off. If you complain about everything that Riot does, then you are not a positive force in the community. You just get debated on, on a blog on MOBAFire. SO CHECK YOURSELF BEFORE YOU WRECK YOURSELF!
I guess this is a problem with the playerbase as whole. Lets look at popular games( I'm not going to use WoW because i played it for a week and got bored with it) for example maplestory. The Playerbase say new characters needed, Nexon mass produced types of characters. Many of the old players left because their previous achievements( like reaching level 200) were being made much easier for newer players and the older classes were much much weaker than the New Classes. It eventually made almost all hardcore/ old players it had leave. But as a result they got an influx of even newer players and the company survived. In the end the companies are most likely going to do what gets them more money.( in the case of WoW and Maplestory make it much more noob friendly).
What mistakes?
The stromscale Arena/BG was the hardest, most hard-core thing there is. Teams would play the game for months on end, and they would still not get their desired rank. The raids were carefully designed, people were on ventrilo and such to play then. The quests were harder to accomplish, there were no tips, no arrows showing you where to go.
But then kids came along, Blizzard downed the game, the hard-core guys...70% left, the noobs joined the game, which resulted in SWTOR becoming a huge success, and the supposed future of this MMO era, which IMO is not the case.
Just to put things in perspective. A good friend of HostShot, that goes by the name of Athene. He got rank one in 5v5 in about....15h? Something like that...but the point is, you could never do this in the old WoW. The hardcore community that once existed in WoW, is mostly gone now. And that's what I'm afraid might happen to LoL. Although LoL is a MOBA, and the same standards don't apply, and I might be an idiot for compering this situation to WoW, but the play-base part at least, is much like WoW's before WRATH? something like that.
I'm not a huge expert on WoW, barely played it, although I generally follow gaming news. So all I've said is based off of that, so I might be wrong.
Apart from some mistakes in WoW, Blizzard has done very well. Even I'll go so far as saying that they are the best game developer out there. But now look, if Blizzard, with all it's xp, were influenced by the noobs in the community, then what is stopping Riot, a new developer of making even bigger mistakes?
Sure LoL and WoW are totally different games, but the concept of the player-base applies to both.
What mistakes?
You want to discuss WoW?
WoW in vanilla was a game that only the most hardcore of the hardcore could experience all of the game content, you required 40 dedicated players willing to spend 8 hours a night trying to down a single boss over many attempts. If you got a drop, you were very lucky, because all raid gear came from raids, so it took an extremely long time to progress through the raids.
In Burning Crusade, this was reduced to 25 players, and bosses were roughly the same difficulty. The concept of attunement evolved into keys, and forced progression, this caused guilds to be forced to run new recruits through old dungeons, but in this expansion raids overall were much more structured and were very complex compared to Vanilla. The badge system was created to speed up the gearing process.
In WotLK this was reduced to 10 players, and attunements were removed. This led to a much easier guild recruitment process, where you could carry a new recruit through a high tier raid in order to get them geared for raiding. The Badge system gained many tiers and the heirloom system was introduced.
In Cataclysm, raids are still 10 players minimum, and attunements are still gone. The complicated badge system was reduced to a point system.
Blizzard's Philosophy: Make Raiding easier, Don't make Raids easier.
Apart from some mistakes in WoW, Blizzard has done very well. Even I'll go so far as saying that they are the best game developer out there. But now look, if Blizzard, with all it's xp, were influenced by the noobs in the community, then what is stopping Riot, a new developer of making even bigger mistakes?
Sure LoL and WoW are totally different games, but the concept of the player-base applies to both.
But here is where i get afraid. Blizzard in the last couple of years got the tendancy to listen to their play base a bit too much. The case being WoW. Whiners ruined the game, and because it was that big, a lot of people were bad at it, and complained about this and that. The result being, Blizzard making WoW much less skill-based, much more noob friendly, which resulted in a bad reputation for the game, and an inevitable leaving of costumers, in WoW's case, by the millions.
Now LoL is in the position that WoW was a couple of years ago. Yes, Riot will surely recognize the whiners from the positive criticism, but with such a huge player base, it's easy for them, like Blizzard, to lose track of things.
You want to discuss WoW?
WoW in vanilla was a game that only the most hardcore of the hardcore could experience all of the game content, you required 40 dedicated players willing to spend 8 hours a night trying to down a single boss over many attempts. If you got a drop, you were very lucky, because all raid gear came from raids, so it took an extremely long time to progress through the raids.
In Burning Crusade, this was reduced to 25 players, and bosses were roughly the same difficulty. The concept of attunement evolved into keys, and forced progression, this caused guilds to be forced to run new recruits through old dungeons, but in this expansion raids overall were much more structured and were very complex compared to Vanilla. The badge system was created to speed up the gearing process.
In WotLK this was reduced to 10 players, and attunements were removed. This led to a much easier guild recruitment process, where you could carry a new recruit through a high tier raid in order to get them geared for raiding. The Badge system gained many tiers and the heirloom system was introduced.
In Cataclysm, raids are still 10 players minimum, and attunements are still gone. The complicated badge system was reduced to a point system.
Blizzard's Philosophy: Make Raiding easier, Don't make Raids easier.
No one has the right to complain about a video game, free or not. Buying a game doesn't give you any right to criticize the content. I can't buy a video game, say it's bad and then sue the company who made it. All I'm buying is the ability to play the game for myself. In a free-to-play game, the satisfaction of the players is how Riot keeps their income. You have the right to walk away. Riot is not obligated to please their player base, but if they don't, they might run themselves out of business (not that this has much to do with patches).
What we are given is the PRIVILEGE to complain. Riot, like most good game companies, actually does pay attention to their player-base and responds to legitimate criticism. These people do this kind of thing professionally. I think they can discern between a point of criticism and a whiner.
Also, in any RTS with regular patches, every single balance change is going to have an army of people ready to complain about it. Every whining Lee Sin player will complain about his nerf, justified or not. Everyone who hates playing against Tryndamere will complain if he gets a buff. Happens for StarCraft as well. Every buff is complained about by players of the other two races. This is nothing new, and to be honest I don't think it's something that can be fixed.
What you can do is not contribute to the QQ after every patch. Find some people who can talk about it seriously without whining and discuss how the new changes are going to impact the game. I think Mobafire is a pretty decent place to do this. Far better than the SC2 forums anyway.
Good points.
But here is where i get afraid. Blizzard in the last couple of years got the tendancy to listen to their play base a bit too much. The case being WoW. Whiners ruined the game, and because it was that big, a lot of people were bad at it, and complained about this and that. The result being, Blizzard making WoW much less skill-based, much more noob friendly, which resulted in a bad reputation for the game, and an inevitable leaving of costumers, in WoW's case, by the millions.
Now LoL is in the position that WoW was a couple of years ago. Yes, Riot will surely recognize the whiners from the positive criticism, but with such a huge player base, it's easy for them, like Blizzard, to lose track of things.
What we are given is the PRIVILEGE to complain. Riot, like most good game companies, actually does pay attention to their player-base and responds to legitimate criticism. These people do this kind of thing professionally. I think they can discern between a point of criticism and a whiner.
Also, in any RTS with regular patches, every single balance change is going to have an army of people ready to complain about it. Every whining Lee Sin player will complain about his nerf, justified or not. Everyone who hates playing against Tryndamere will complain if he gets a buff. Happens for StarCraft as well. Every buff is complained about by players of the other two races. This is nothing new, and to be honest I don't think it's something that can be fixed.
What you can do is not contribute to the QQ after every patch. Find some people who can talk about it seriously without whining and discuss how the new changes are going to impact the game. I think Mobafire is a pretty decent place to do this. Far better than the SC2 forums anyway.
Better nerf Irelia.
I think that the argument "It's free", so you don't have the right to complain is wrong to the core.
Riot's job is to please its players, not the other way around--it's something about marketing and stuff like advertising and having a larger fan base.
Free or not there are players out there who have paid Riot hundreds of euros or even more on skins, champions and such, so why don't I have the right to speak my mind when an unpopular change comes out?
About the current problem with the Jax nerf/buff or the Lee Sin nerf, personally, I don't have a problem with that, my sole problem with Riot is their refusal to release a new support champion, other than that, good game Riot.
You do have the right to complain ( in the case mentioned) but, in the other case, where you play the game with no money what so ever, you don't.
Riot's job is to please its players, not the other way around--it's something about marketing and stuff like advertising and having a larger fan base.
Free or not there are players out there who have paid Riot hundreds of euros or even more on skins, champions and such, so why don't I have the right to speak my mind when an unpopular change comes out?
About the current problem with the Jax nerf/buff or the Lee Sin nerf, personally, I don't have a problem with that, my sole problem with Riot is their refusal to release a new support champion, other than that, good game Riot.