What's with all the Item hate?

[quote=DillButt64][quote=RosePhoenix] No champion ever aims to buy a big item meant for CDR. [/quote] Karma needs CDR to work efficiently but buying Nashor's on her would be stupid but still she needs CDR[/quote]

[quote=lifebaka][quote=RosePhoenix] Want CDR? Blue pot + blue buff + DFG on APs. Other items (Frozen heart, etc) + blue pot on bruisers. Want AP? Get AP with other items. 65 AP - 2700 is minuscule Want AS? Get other items with other benefits. If you're adding up all the stats themselves with a "price tag" then I wouldn't know. Stats suck on items when you're choosing cheap stats. CDR is cheap. Until they make a champion that matches the archetype for Nashor's they will need to change it. Even if they buff the item people wont buy it on casters. NO casters ever aim to get a "big item" for CDR. That's beyond stupid. It's the exact same reason as to why people don't rush Morello's or even buy it anymore. CDR is a cheap stat that isn't valued early ~ mid as much as flat on damage or resistances are worth. More so blue buff + blue pot is already near max CDR for APs. That's why Riot stopped making items focused mainly on CDR. Speaking of Morello's that item's like extinct. [/quote] So, I'm going to preface this by saying that we actually agree. No one can use it effectively. We're just arguing about what to call the state that the item is in, which is why we're not getting anywhere. I suggest we just agree that when you say "it's bad" and I say "it's good but doesn't have a place in the game", we mean the same thing and just leave it at that. My little piece about what would happen if it gets buffed was largely directed at MrCudd, not you. I was simply warning that it could become incredibly powerful on at least some mages if either its cost is further reduced or its AP is further increased. It would remain a niche pick, but it's niche would actually exist, and I worry that it could be extremely powerful in that niche. Finally, when I've been discussing the stat-to-gold-cost efficiency of Nashor's (which I still hold is great), I actually haven't been factoring in its CDR, which I agree is not too difficult to itemize for if necessary (which it is on some champions). The simple reason for this is that exact gold values for CDR could only ever be assumed, so I saw little reason to worry about them. To address [[Leviathan]], snowball items have little place in more serious play. It's generally too difficult to keep their stacks up. Leviathan in particular has a big issue with this; in order to get it to about 1:1 efficiency in terms of how much you're paying for your stats, you need to keep it at 10 stacks. This is compared to the 7 stacks required on the other two snowball items.[/quote]

[quote=Embracing]Yeah I agree that no one can use it effectively. You do need to factor in the CDR to actually account for its state of viability. And even on Karma what would you buy? Standard AP items. It's easiest for the AP mid to cap out or get near max cap of CDR via blue buff and blue pot. CDR is valued on some champs but those champs never EVER buy items mainly for the CDR.[/quote]

[quote=Kazega]I looked at the champion roster and sure enough there are only 5 champions that can use [[nashor's tooth]] They are listed below and I kinda figured where I would put them in a build for each champion. Bear in mind I don't play any of these except Diana [[teemo]]: Has good Synergy with [[Toxic shot]]. CDR reduces wait time for mushrooms. Most likely 3rd item slot. [[Kayle]]: Has good synergy with [[Righteous fury]] 2nd item choice. [[Diana]]: Has good synergy with [[moonsilver blade]] 3rd or 4th item pick. [[twisted fate]]: Has good synergy with [[stacked deck]] Late game pick, because [[stacked deck]] starts being leveled. [[kog'maw]]: Has good synergy with [[Bio-arcane barrage]]. 2nd or 3rd pick So the main issue I see here is that with the exception of [[Teemo]], and even then it is iffy because i didn't consider CDR benefits for any other champion, Nashor's on applies to a single skill set of each champion. In some cases it's alright since [[Kog'maw]] relies on [[bio-arcane barrage]], while TF doesn't rely on [[stacked deck]] too much.[/quote]