Leona has a weak early game, everyone knows this. That's why early plays with her are risky, but can pay off well if they are successful. And I did say the only reason you'd rush Heart of Gold is if you're doing well in gold.

That same guide also starts Faerie Charm and it also writes:



Oh look, he rushes philosopher's Stone.

Even though he does state a preference for a boots + 1 ward start, 1 ward isn't enough... it doesn't give you enough vision and if they counter with even a single Vision Ward, you'll be blind until you buy more. If I ever see an enemy with just 1 ward, I deward every time = free jungle ganks.

Incidentally, there's a reason why other guides chose those same item starts, masteries, runes, etc... it's because they tend to work. Alternatives can be possible, but tend to be unideal. I once heard an Amumu guide say this after I suggested he take Abyssal Mask in his core build because it had a high win % whenever Amumu bought that item (75%): 'Yes, but since it's such a good item, everyone else takes that item, I want to try something different.'

So basically, his logic was, since it was a good item which everyone takes and Amumu wins almost all the time with it, he won't take it. Which is another way of saying 'I'm not making the most optimal guide, using the most optimal items, because I don't want to stand in a crowd'.

That kind of reasoning is very invalid as a reason for not taking the item.

I'm watching IPL, looks like xpecial started faery charm and built straight for HoG, and he didnt get any early kills etc.

http://www.lolpro.com/guides/leona/100-leona-guide-support-by-muffinqt/item-build

pros DO build boots first on leona.

Again, I'm glad this guide is getting such a debate, but here is what I keep hearing when I read these comments.

"Blah blah blah, this isn't the way everyone else plays leona, blah blah blah, the only way to play leona is this way blah blah blah"

to which another replies

"Blah blah blah no you're wrong, THIS is the only way to play leona, blah blah blah, just leave the guide alone, blah blah blah."

I'm doing my best to hear the arguments going on out there, as well as to take the input and look at how that changes my opinions on the build, but I do want to make one thing clear: I will not simply change this guide to coincide with all of the other guides. That will defeat the point of this guide. I also don't care if season 3 is about to happen. This guide was a practice guide, my first guide.

The moral is that this guide works at the very least in norms. If you think it has issues, that's great, but don't tell me to just copy-paste xpecial's guide or something because "it's the best".

And I have a higher win ratio with ranked Leona than you, not that that matters. I won a ranked game yesterday with Leona going 1/1/14 with a Philosopher's Stone start, so no matter right or wrong, I'll keep going the way I am... until they remove Heart of Gold... then I'll probably have to make some adjustments...

Butting into this, but to raise the point that was said earlier, unless there's a extremely new update from Riot saying otherwise, Heart of Gold is set to be removed in the very near future. Not just the GP5, but the whole thing, probably in a couple of weeks (depending on when Riot decides to actually implement the pre season changes). Everything it builds into is now built with other items (Generally, Ruby Crystal.

Btw. just ran a game with Leona and started Heart of Gold. Won by far and survived several times early while ganks by Lee and TF with 100 HP. No matter if I'm wrong or right, I'll keep doing it.

Eh, I said if Heart of Gold looses his gp10 it had to be Philosopher's Stone first, right. As long as this has not happened in my game, Heart of Gold first is stronger IN KILL LANES. Dunno whether you missed it but this is not in general the case, it's an item for certain situations.

Sorry, I'm going to have to ask you to clarify your English for me...

So you agree that Heart of Gold over Philosopher's Stone shouldn't be rushed because it might lose its gp10 income and because it's more cost effective to spend 620g completing Philosopher's Stone than waiting for 850g for Heart of Gold... And everyone eventually builds Philosopher's Stone anyway, so then we have nothing else to talk about? Did I misunderstand you?

Well cause the only valid argument is (and you already said it) that Heart of Gold might loose it's income. In that case everybody got to build Philosopher's Stone anyways and there would be nothing to talk about.

Nope. The pros all rush Philosopher's stone... I don't know what you are smoking, or what pros you are watching. Since you start Faerie Charm, the logical step is to build Philosopher's Stone to get that immediate GP10. I've not seen a single pro build that rushes Heart of Gold first without a substantial lead (for example, able to buy it straight off the bat in one recall) but even then, most people take Philosopher's Stone and boots instead. That's far more cost effective.

Since when was I discussing stuff on the PBE with you? >.>

Next thing: I always start with Faerie Charm and sight wards. Reason is yours. And? Why the heck should I care about that? If you are going into a lane and you know you are going to be balls deep in you always go Heart of Gold. This is not only my opinion but also the author's and any supportive player on high elo. The simple fact that you can peel much more in trades is absolutely outstanding. Ofc Sona works better with a lot of mana regen and doesn't peel in lane that much. But Leona? I'd never ever get a reason to rush Philosopher's stone ( and don't say because you buy Faerie Charm you have to get it). Does it help you trading as Leona? Not at all.

I'm discussing here the state of the league atm, like the build is building for the game atm. It's nonsense to discuss stuff that's on PBE. You can do that when all items and effects ares set in stone. But right now in aggressive all-in-lanes it always has been better to go Heart of Gold first and Philosopher's stone after.