Jungler stuff

[quote=DillButt64]so ive been having to play jungle a lot with my friends since im the only one that really knows how so are there any tips you can give to me? also i think i need more junglers and i want to know if there are any that are like [[Nocturne]] and [[Trundle]] also ive been doing a smiteless blue and then stealing red directly after with [[Trundle]], would it be possible or safe to do it with [[Nocturne]] or [[Hecarim]]? junglers i do have are [[nocturne]], [[trundle]], [[hecarim]], and [[maokai]] and i tend to build bruiser with all of them, or more DPS with [[nocturne]] if the team has enough tankiness and not enough damage but any jungling help would be nice since im probably going to be playing it more than any other role[/quote]

[quote=The Overmyynd][[kha' zix]] and [[rengar]] are somewhat similar to [[nocturne]], they have that jump in and assassinate feel to them. I think that it might not be quite as safe to do a red steal with noc or hec because at that early level they dont have the kind of escape trundle does with [[pillar of filth]], except for the fear on noc. The duration at that low level might not be enough to get away, but its much safer with noc than hec, trundle works for it really well.[/quote]

[quote=BlindGarret2930]It isn't nearly as "safe" to do a red steal on [[Nocturne]] or [[Hecarim]], but that's not to say it's not a good idea. Noc has a fairly speedy jungle and with a smiteless blue its not an awful idea to try a red steal if you have vision on the enemy red. The problem with safety is that it's a high risk high reward tactic. While this is both normal and very safe on someone like [[Shaco]], he is more of the exception to the rule then the standard. Now as far as junglers who are like Noc, I think Overmyynd hit the nail on the head with [[Rengar]], they don't feel similar, but they fulfill the same role. I don't really think Khaz belongs in the jungle though> It's too bad, his storyline makes him FEEL like a jungler, but I find he does better in my experience with the farm that comes from a lane. I'd also suggest you look into [[Skarner]], as if you enjoy [[Maokai]] (though i typically tank as maokai) you'll enjoy the feeling of [[skarner]]. His ganks are less effective pre-6, but a good flash+ult from skarner is almost as good as a well aimed blitz hook. Hope that helps![/quote]

[quote=sirell][[Hecarim]] has a strong steal on red in my opinion. Even if they have jungle entrances warded, you can run right in and take it (378 starting MS ftw). You can smack them away from their buff, [[smite]]steal and proceed with kill if possible. Decent escaping power as well.[/quote]

[quote=BlindGarret2930]Oh, sorry one more thing. [[Rengar]] in my experience is a bit weaker in his first clear then [[nocturne]]. After his first clear I don't have a problem but, unlike Noc where i feel safe throughout the entire first clear, with reng I'm constantly checking bushes around my next camp for an ambush as I feel that an ambush at the wrong moment in a Reng first clear is certain to be a First Blood[/quote]

[quote=BlindGarret2930][quote=sirell] [[Hecarim]] has a strong steal on red in my opinion. Even if they have jungle entrances warded, you can run right in and take it (378 starting MS ftw). You can smack them away from their buff, [[smite]]steal and proceed with kill if possible. Decent escaping power as well. [/quote] Yeah I get that feeling as well, but honestly most of my ranked Exp jungling isn't with Hec. The only thing I don't feel comfortable doing with him though is the "shaco steal" where you smiteless blue and go straight for there red, intending to get it before they even know your there. He has a great steal if they are currently doing red, but I don't like his kill speed for trying to ninja the red without them knowing. Once again though, my exp with Hec is almost all normal modes so I may have a bad opinion of his abilities due to Nubbishness.[/quote]

[quote=sirell]Well, [[Hecarim]] is my best jungler at present (decent clear, great ganks). There are certain champs that he will have trouble counter-jungling, like [[Rammus]]. But since [[Hecarim]] is quick, you will almost always get to their red before they will, so you can camp the brush and try for the kill if they check the brush, running out with E/[[Ghost]] if necessary. Though to be fair, I rarely counter-jungle with [[Hecarim]] (when I do, he works wonders) because I think his strength lies in ganking (unless they ward far enough, they don't usually have an advanced enough warning from a [[Hecarim]] gank). Hell, sometimes I get the impression if I lane ganked, I'd still be able to pull it off, XD. But, I'm still usually successful in counter-jungling with the pony. [[shaco]] is unique in his ability to counter-jungle at present. Borderline broken if not actually broken.[/quote]

[quote=DillButt64][quote=The Overmyynd] [[kha' zix]] and [[rengar]] are somewhat similar to [[nocturne]], they have that jump in and assassinate feel to them. I think that it might not be quite as safe to do a red steal with noc or hec because at that early level they dont have the kind of escape trundle does with [[pillar of filth]], except for the fear on noc. The duration at that low level might not be enough to get away, but its much safer with noc than hec, trundle works for it really well. [/quote] its not trundles pillar that makes it easy to steal it its the fact that his Q takes away from the junglers AD and give you bonus AD and his W gives him AS CC reduction and MS which makes him amazing at 1v1ing champions early which is why i feel its safe to steal the red right after i get a smiteless blue as for hecarim i dont feel like it would be as safe after i played a game with him because im always lowish hp when im jungling with him, shaco i might get but im not good with the whole clone thing and controlling it, kha'zix i own and i tried jungling with him and it wasnt as good as laning with him, rengar i never tried but i might try him if hes ever free again, and i tried skarner on his recent free week and he was eh to me someone i did look at was Shyvana is she any good? and by champions like noc and trundle i mean they can stick to champions (noc with his Q path and fear and spellshield for CC and trundle being able to stick to champions with his W and E) and that they have really good sustain because of their passives (like seriously im always at 3/4th hp while im trundle because of his passive)[/quote]

[quote=DillButt64]also is olaf any good after his nerfs or is he still rape crazy as always? and im still wondering for input about shyvana and if shes good now or not[/quote]