desert bros, renekton and nasus duo top

[quote=Bioalchemist]i'm gonna rock some swain support tonight XD[/quote]

[quote=Lord Kesharq]just saying....jungle [[talon]] IS the way forward lol...... OH and there is nothing wrong with the 2-1-2 meta...i personally perfer it over the 1-1-2 + jungler meta.[/quote]

[quote=Vapora Dark][quote=GrandmasterD] [quote=Vapora Dark] Lol I actually like this change. Vulnerability to early jungle ganks are one of both Talon and Swain's biggest cons, especially Swain. Likewise for Swain, if I don't have a jungler, there's no one to decide they'd rather have the blue instead of me. And with the enemy team having no jungler, the chances of the enemy team actually stealing the blue are very slim. That's 2 of Swain's biggest cons gone overnight. Inb4 Swain tier 1. Viva la duo-top-olution! [/quote] Both [h2][b]Swain[/b][/h2] and Talon will not be able to lane mid anymore as they [h2][b]will be dominated by[/b][/h2] the high waveclear champs such as Lissandra, [h2][b]Zed[/b][/h2], Ziggs, etc. [/quote] wat Swain vs Zed is literally one of the most one-sided lanes for Swain I've ever played. You can't waveclear SHIT if you can't get close enough to the minions to cast W. Lissandra and Ziggs do technically counter Swain because of their wave-clear and range, but as I often like to say, playing against [[swain]] requires a high skillcap. If you make the mistake of getting hit by [[nevermove]], all the range in the world won't prevent Swain eating your face. Landing a random W as Swain often ends being a free kill if they don't flash, sometimes even despite a flash. And I don't recall Talon having trouble farming under the tower. In fact I more often find myself frustrated at the fact that the lane is in fact pushed too far towards my enemy's tower and I can't jump on them. And even if Talon did have it hard to CS under his tower, post-tiamat his waveclear is far better than [[ziggs]]', [[lissandra]]'s and [[zed]]'s.[/quote]

[quote=GrandmasterD][quote=Vapora Dark] [quote=GrandmasterD] [quote=Vapora Dark] Lol I actually like this change. Vulnerability to early jungle ganks are one of both Talon and Swain's biggest cons, especially Swain. Likewise for Swain, if I don't have a jungler, there's no one to decide they'd rather have the blue instead of me. And with the enemy team having no jungler, the chances of the enemy team actually stealing the blue are very slim. That's 2 of Swain's biggest cons gone overnight. Inb4 Swain tier 1. Viva la duo-top-olution! [/quote] Both [h2][b]Swain[/b][/h2] and Talon will not be able to lane mid anymore as they [h2][b]will be dominated by[/b][/h2] the high waveclear champs such as Lissandra, [h2][b]Zed[/b][/h2], Ziggs, etc. [/quote] wat Swain vs Zed is literally one of the most one-sided lanes for Swain I've ever played. You can't waveclear SHIT if you can't get close enough to the minions to cast W. Lissandra and Ziggs do technically counter Swain because of their wave-clear and range, but as I often like to say, playing against [[swain]] requires a high skillcap. If you make the mistake of getting hit by [[nevermove]], all the range in the world won't prevent Swain eating your face. Landing a random W as Swain often ends being a free kill if they don't flash, sometimes even despite a flash. And I don't recall Talon having trouble farming under the tower. In fact I more often find myself frustrated at the fact that the lane is in fact pushed too far towards my enemy's tower and I can't jump on them. And even if Talon did have it hard to CS under his tower, post-tiamat his waveclear is far better than [[ziggs]]', [[lissandra]]'s and [[zed]]'s. [/quote] I don't think I've read this amount of bullshit in one post in a long time. I'd advise you to stop jerking off to two champions and take a look around you.[/quote]

[quote=NicknameMy]One team could be: Supports: Nautilus+Thresh cuz CC is fun. Mid: Orianna cuz CC is fun. Top: Tryndamere cuz if everyone is CC'd, he goes on a rampage. Bot: Jinx cuz CC is fun.[/quote]

[quote=drakon136][quote=GrandmasterD] I don't think I've read this amount of bullshit in one post in a long time. I'd advise you to stop jerking off to two champions and take a look around you. [/quote] So you're saying that Lissandra, Ziggs, and Zed cannot be killed by Swain if he snares them? Sure, whatever you say. Admittedly, the last sentence was definitely bullshit though.[/quote]

[quote=Jimmydoggga 2.0]Just because a champion has poor waveclear doesn't mean you can't use them, it just means they have a better mid/late game than their early game. Its like the problem Kassadin's had for ages and yet he gets banned/picked every game in high ELO. Also Renekton with support masteries? If you want to win your duo lane you give Nasus support masteries and let Renekton bully the crap out of the lane early, not the other way round.[/quote]

[quote=Vapora Dark][quote=GrandmasterD] [quote=Vapora Dark] [quote=GrandmasterD] [quote=Vapora Dark] Lol I actually like this change. Vulnerability to early jungle ganks are one of both Talon and Swain's biggest cons, especially Swain. Likewise for Swain, if I don't have a jungler, there's no one to decide they'd rather have the blue instead of me. And with the enemy team having no jungler, the chances of the enemy team actually stealing the blue are very slim. That's 2 of Swain's biggest cons gone overnight. Inb4 Swain tier 1. Viva la duo-top-olution! [/quote] Both [h2][b]Swain[/b][/h2] and Talon will not be able to lane mid anymore as they [h2][b]will be dominated by[/b][/h2] the high waveclear champs such as Lissandra, [h2][b]Zed[/b][/h2], Ziggs, etc. [/quote] wat Swain vs Zed is literally one of the most one-sided lanes for Swain I've ever played. You can't waveclear SHIT if you can't get close enough to the minions to cast W. Lissandra and Ziggs do technically counter Swain because of their wave-clear and range, but as I often like to say, playing against [[swain]] requires a high skillcap. If you make the mistake of getting hit by [[nevermove]], all the range in the world won't prevent Swain eating your face. Landing a random W as Swain often ends being a free kill if they don't flash, sometimes even despite a flash. And I don't recall Talon having trouble farming under the tower. In fact I more often find myself frustrated at the fact that the lane is in fact pushed too far towards my enemy's tower and I can't jump on them. And even if Talon did have it hard to CS under his tower, post-tiamat his waveclear is far better than [[ziggs]]', [[lissandra]]'s and [[zed]]'s. [/quote] I don't think I've read this amount of bullshit in one post in a long time. I'd advise you to stop jerking off to two champions and take a look around you. [/quote] It's not bullshit. I have a lot more experience with both champs than you do, and I've run those lanes multiple times. Talon with a Tiamat clears a full wave in 2 clicks, less than a second after casting W. Lissandra, Ziggs and Zed can't wave-clear that fast, and Ziggs + Lissandra need to use up more mana than him to clear an entire wave. Even pre-Tiamat, Talon stacks AD and has an auto-attack reset, last-hitting under the tower until he can compete in terms of wave-clear is nowhere near as much of a problem as it is for for most other AP carries. I've seen you say before that Kassadin deals well with being shoved to his tower because he can last-hit under the tower with W, and any AD champion does almost as much auto-attack damage or more than Kass with W turned on. Why would it be any different for Talon? I've ran Swain vs Zed like 10 times in ranked alone and it's no different to running Swain vs any other meelee. If Zed wants to farm, even with W, he's going to take a [[torment]], [[decrepify]] and a [[torment]]-enhanced auto-attack or two just to place his W near enough. If he tries to do it post-6 and gets snared, he'll likely die if he doesn't Flash. You may not believe that because Swain is only seen once every blue moon, but Swain's damage is retarded, and don't pretend you know exactly how much damage he does just because you're a mid lane main, you likely see Swain every 70 games or more, and because of his unpopularity, I'm assuming you've not played him extensively either to recognize how much damage he can out-put. Snaring someone at level 6 that can't CC you back in return like [[syndra]] can will 100% of the time either force them to recall on 20% HP or kill them. That's something I've noticed from maining him, and it's partly why I love him so much. I didn't just randomly take a liking to him and decide to exaggerate how good he is, I only like him because he's so strong.[/quote]

[quote=Embracing]I'm pretty sure Swain poops on all melees including Zed. Even under a hypothetical scenario where Zed is able to w onto swain he'll just simply get kited with a q and get screwed over by minions. In lane Swain is renown for his E harass.[/quote]

[quote=Wayne3100]I think GMD was more trying to point out that [[Swain]]'s waveclear is bad, not that [[Zed]] (or any other champ for that matter) won't take damage if he gets hit by [[Nevermove]][/quote]