Upcoming Ahri nerf in Draven's patch

[quote=Blood26]Here are the details. [list] [color=#00ff00]Fox-Fire: Damage decreased to 40/65/90/115/140 (+0.4 increased) [max damage:80/130/180/230/280 (+0.8 increased)], from 40/70/100/130/160 (+0.375) [max damage:80/140/200/260/320 (+0.75)].[/color] [/list] [list] [color=#00ffff]Spirit Rush: Damage decreased to 85/125/165 (+0.35 increased), from 100/140/180 (+0.3).[/color] [/list] Just wanted to know what do you guys think ? Before I go saying anything else, I personally feel that someone should bring Ahri's nerf to an attention in Riot. Because the Hecarim patch pretty much buffed everyone else, and Ahri was left unbuffed. I am not usually a person to discuss about nerfs or buffs, but this nerf to Ahri is ridiculously stupid. People say its a late game buff in disguise, I have my reasons to disagree. But that aside, how many of you are against the nerf ?[/quote]

[quote=Lugignaf]Someone did the maths and she's doing about the same damage late game in a full QWERRR combo. Assuming everything hits that is.[/quote]

[quote=Luther3000]I was already pretty bad on Ahri so I probably just won't play her much anymore. :P[/quote]

[quote=Xaioli]It's not really a nerf. Her late game is being buffed by upped ratios and her early game is being nerfed. Realistically, I whole heartedly agree with Riot's decision because her early game dominance is too strong while her late game falls off compared to other AP's. Realistically, it's a minor buff to Ahri, leveling her early game to other AP's while making her actually terrifying in the late game phase.[/quote]

[quote=Blood26][quote=Luther3000] I was already pretty bad on Ahri so I probably just won't play her much anymore. :P [/quote] I saw your post, I'd still stick to Ahri, because she's the reason why I left HoN. But the nerf definitely isn't welcomed.[/quote]

[quote=Blood26][quote=Xaioli] It's not really a nerf. Her late game is being buffed by upped ratios and her early game is being nerfed. Realistically, I whole heartedly agree with Riot's decision because her early game dominance is too strong while her late game falls off compared to other AP's. Realistically, it's a minor buff to Ahri, leveling her early game to other AP's while making her actually terrifying in the late game phase. [/quote] A 0.25 and 0.5 ratio isn't going to make much of a difference for our little fox girl. IMHO, her late game is fine. Riot focuses too much on her late game. And despite the hidden buffs, I certainly disagree with it. I can explain (from a non-calculative point of view) if you think I'm being absurd :P.[/quote]

[quote=Blood26][quote=Amazing Monkey] Oh wait......I misread lol. This is good for her! [/quote] So much for +Rep-ing :P. But no seriously, its still a big slap to us Ahri users imo.[/quote]

[quote=Xaioli][quote=Blood26] [quote=Xaioli] It's not really a nerf. Her late game is being buffed by upped ratios and her early game is being nerfed. Realistically, I whole heartedly agree with Riot's decision because her early game dominance is too strong while her late game falls off compared to other AP's. Realistically, it's a minor buff to Ahri, leveling her early game to other AP's while making her actually terrifying in the late game phase. [/quote] A 0.25 and 0.5 ratio isn't going to make much of a difference for our little fox girl. IMHO, her late game is fine. Riot focuses too much on her late game. And despite the hidden buffs, I certainly disagree with it. I can explain (from a non-calculative point of view) if you think I'm being absurd :P. [/quote] Regardless of number crunching, Riot wants to aim for a late game buff for Ahri because it IS weaker than others and she needs to be able to keep up. You honestly can't compare her late game damage to heavy nukers like Ryze; Cassio, Gragas, Karthus, etc. Do remember, this is PBE and numbers will toss and turn a lot. Even if the patch is shipped out like it is now, it is seriously justified. I know Ahri is your favorite champion and all but you don't see me complaining about Nautilus shield nerfs because I know it's pretty strong and in Ahri's case, true damage and magic damage harass/poke was a bit too strong in lane and she's just returning to normal playing field with other AP's.[/quote]

[quote=Mooninites]I always thought [[ahri]] was really strong late game already. Her firefox does terrible damage at early ranks, I don't really understand this change[/quote]

[quote=Blood26][quote=Xaioli] [quote=Blood26] [quote=Xaioli] It's not really a nerf. Her late game is being buffed by upped ratios and her early game is being nerfed. Realistically, I whole heartedly agree with Riot's decision because her early game dominance is too strong while her late game falls off compared to other AP's. Realistically, it's a minor buff to Ahri, leveling her early game to other AP's while making her actually terrifying in the late game phase. [/quote] A 0.25 and 0.5 ratio isn't going to make much of a difference for our little fox girl. IMHO, her late game is fine. Riot focuses too much on her late game. And despite the hidden buffs, I certainly disagree with it. I can explain (from a non-calculative point of view) if you think I'm being absurd :P. [/quote] Regardless of number crunching, Riot wants to aim for a late game buff for Ahri because it IS weaker than others and she needs to be able to keep up. You honestly can't compare her late game damage to heavy nukers like Ryze; Cassio, Gragas, Karthus, etc. Do remember, this is PBE and numbers will toss and turn a lot. Even if the patch is shipped out like it is now, it is seriously justified. I know Ahri is your favorite champion and all but you don't see me complaining about Nautilus shield nerfs because I know it's pretty strong and in Ahri's case, true damage and magic damage harass/poke was a bit too strong in lane and she's just returning to normal playing field with other AP's. [/quote] Here's why I think the late game buff will not help [list=1] 1. Positioning 2. AP 3. Game phase 4. Items [/list] [list] [color=#00ffff][u]Positioning[/u][/color] : This is, frankly a matter of personal preference. By nerfing her initial base damage to Fox Fire and Spirit Rush, RIOT is indirectly hampering players who rely on Ahri's positioning instead of skillshots do kill/damage or harass. I'm pretty sure there are players who max out Q and E as Ahri, but there are also some players who max out W and R as Ahri. Different players have different playstyles, imho, skillshots aren't 100% reliable, a good Ahri can experience late game buff and they will never perform well late game because they just suck at skillshots. That said, there are Ahri players who play with her W and R. You nerf W and R, players who rely on these 2 key skills just wouldn't do well compared to how they are as of now. [u][color=#00ff00]AP[/color][/u]: Prior to posting here I saw some posts on LoL's forum about Ahri's 3rd nerf. If I am not mistaken, calculation shows that to achieve a breakeven point in terms of damage for Ahri's W, one needs to have 600/800/1000 AP minimum. Consider this, Ahri is already extremely item dependent, and AP items are not cheap by nature. To accumulate up to 600/800/1000 AP for the purpose of achieving breakeven point, Ahri needs to farm a lot. And to farm a lot, she does this by killing. How does she kill ? She relies on her skillsets, which brings us back to point 1 : Positioning. One more thing that why Ahri users (imo) should be concerned about the nerfs is due to the fact it also affects their Rune page settings. With the nerf, it means Ahri players have to place full emphasis on an AP rune page without utility runes in order to counter her weak early game. My rune page consists of Mana regen runes for Ahri. Bear in mind that Ahri is extremely mana-hungry early game, you can have an insanely high amount of early AP and do lots of damage, but if you can't land your skillshots right, the aggressive playstyle will not help her dominate mid lane. And it will essentially be a waste of mana. [/list] [list] [color=#ffffff][u]Game phase[/u][/color]: As an Ahri mainer, I know how it's like to start off badly. Ahri is extremely early game dependent. Having said that, you take away her early game dominance, Ahri will not farm well and thus will not perform well late game. Some champions are entirely game-phase free, Ahri isn't one of them. My point is, if Ahri has a bad start early game (no kills, no good farms, tons of death), she will not have a smooth transition in to late game, which defeats the purpose of buffing her late game. By late game, nobody solos. Everybody ganks, Ahri's buffed up AP ratios and late game damage will only benefit her if she is pitted in a 1v1 situation, where all her Fox Fire and Spirit Rush concentrates on one enemy. But we're talking about ganks, teamfights. The kind where Ahri doesn't excel at, the instance she activates her ulti and FF, they hit separate targets, and as we all know, her singular base damage for each Fox Fire or Spirit Rush isn't impressive. Coupled up by the fact that you don't control the targets of her spell, makes it even harder for Ahri to kill after the nerf. What about her Orb ? Sure, skillshots. Again, skillshots aren't 100% reliable. Skillshots can be juked, a bad Ahri player who can't land skillshots will be useless, which brings about to the reliance of Fox Fire and Spirit Rush, again. [/list] [list] [color=#ff8000][u]Items[/u][/color] : I don't think this is important, its more a game phase related issue. To accumulate more than 600 AP, you require more AP items. AP items, as we talked about earlier is costly. Most of the time, it is very rare to have 800 AP or 1000 AP in a match. Even worse, Ahri isn't the kind of champion who can stack items as she likes because she is so squishy she needs items such WoTa to give her sustainability. Taking about squishiness, that brings us back to her dmg again. Since Ahri is already squishy, shouldn't she have high damage in order to balance it out ? Most games don't last long enough for an AP carry to have 600+ AP, unless your an Archangel Staff stacker freak. [/list] Personally, these are my opinions. And to me, they seem like important ones, ones that would affect a number of Ahri players. I appreciate Riot's effort to buff up her late game, but in the process of doing so, it seems like they've overshadowed her early game phase, which as, again and again I've mentioned, a key phase for Ahri to do well late game. You take away that early game dominance, you just won't have that late game superiority. Its like teaching a child to walk when they lack the basics of crawling. Also, I don't know about you. But Ahri is a mage with a semi-burstyness. Ahri isn't just any standard AP carry, she's different from most of them. By saying she's returning to the normal AP field, its like indirectly saying Ahri is no longer a mage-assassin and only strictly a mage. This, I would have to disagree. Besides, the nerf to her ult is already a big slap to her face, this just isn't necessary. I apologize if my comments or arguments are too misleading, perhaps an Ahri player with better English would understand what I'm trying to convey and explain it in a simpler manner. As of now, this is what I feel the nerf will do to her when it comes out.[/quote]