So...about the Ryze chages

[quote=Opaque_Shadow]What do you guys think? I understand that his tankiness to damage output ratio was imbalanced, but I feel like they nerfed the wrong things to fix it. They took out some of his mana to damage ratio which to me is the main thing that makes [[ryze]] a fun, unique, and interesting to play. they've made him just another ap offtank to me. Don't get me wrong, he needed a little nerfing, but I'm not sure they way riot chose was best. Anyone else have any thoughts?[/quote]

[quote=Luther3000]It was a buff imo. I was sure they'd remove it or change it for the live patch.[/quote]

[quote=Darcurse]Yep buff. Hearing the Patch Preview, I lol'd. "Ryze deals way too much dmg for being tanky" [sarcasm] "So while TWEAKING his dmg (not nerfing) we hope that the better extra effect on his ulti lets players build him glass cannon, automatically getting rid of dmg+tank Ryze" [/sarcasm] Sooo... my question: Seeing the buffs/nerfs on the mana ratio part, what keeps the players from Tear->Glacial->Banshee->Archangel's ? Still the same shitload of dmg/tankiness but with a new and better utli effect...[/quote]

[quote=Luther3000]I think Rod of Ages is going to be a lot more viable on him now too.[/quote]

[quote=Opaque_Shadow]That's all true, I still wish Riot could balance him in a way that actually works AND doesn't nerf the main thing that makes [[ryze]] awesome (mana scaling damage)[/quote]

[quote=caucheka]hah, and people laughed at me for building 2 roas and making my support carry a wota.[/quote]

[quote=Embracing]that wasn't optimal pre-patch[/quote]

[quote=caucheka]why was it not optimal? outside of tears unique, roa has 725 mana and it gives the most mana out of any item. it also gave 630 health. considering it gave more than half of its stat upfront, it was a good item. my full build was [[sorcerer's shoes]] [[tear of the goddess]] [[rod of ages]] [[banshee's veil]] [[frozen heart]] [[rod of ages]] [[archangel's staff]] i might be out 225 mana from new ult, but i'll still have over 6k.[/quote]

[quote=Embracing]1) Bad transitions during item purchases 2) No MPen 3) Support is forced to buy Wota - limited choices 4) Costs so fucking much these are the only reasons i can think of right now my heads kinda dead i'll get back to you / clarify / add on more points when my heads not dead *-*[/quote]

[quote=caucheka]i don't understand what you mean by bad transitions. 29/10% isn't no mpen, but i don't see any good choices for mpen on ryze. theres hardly any ways to build mpen in the first place, im probably wrong but the only 4 items i can think of are [[sorcerer's shoes]][[haunting guise]][[void staff]][[abyssal scepter]]. i might switch banshees for abyssal after the rework and see if it works better. a supports job is to, you know, support the team. ap usually works good on supports anyway, so a wota is a good choice, considering its the only real support for mages. excluding shoes, 90% of ryzes build 4/5 of the same items i do. considering the 5th item is usually a wota, and the price of wota is going up a bunch, then i dont see price as an issue of my build. converting to archangels was always the last thing i did, but i might try upgrading to archangels before second roa once the patch hits.[/quote]