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Kai, The Nature Mage

Creator: Lazukin
July 3, 2012 12:21am
8 posts page 1 of 1 Forums » Theory Crafting & Ideation » Kai, The Nature Mage
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep | Commend by Lazukin » July 3, 2012 12:21am | Report
Kai is my first champion concept in like 4230523 years, so chances are it will suck, but I have always wanted to take the idea of "don't focus the tank" to a much higher level. He really isn't a huge threat in most situations, but when the conditions are right, he can go out of control, he is not someone you want to see charging into the middle of your team. He has one (extremely powerful) damaging spell that he can use whenever he wants, but it's a DoT, and not something that will instantly take out your whole team. What makes Kai scary is that if anybody focuses him, your whole team is punished for it, and when only he is left, he is more than capable of winning most 1v1 fights. He fights much differently than most champions, with his counterattack ability being his staple. Kai can clean up like a boss.

Kai is a Melee counter-DPS tank. He is not an assassin, but uses a small
dagger called a Katara (No, not the waterbender you silly peoples) which is about 2 feet in length. He uses a unique nature magic, but he is unwilling to discuss how or why he picked up this little talent.
despite his preference for nature magic, he and Maokai seem to be very careful
around one another...


Passive - Kai gains bonus AD based on (1/2/3)% of his max hp.

A pretty simple passive, very powerful when gold efficiency is considered, and provides some free scaling on his counterattack ability.


Ability 1 - Kai entangles nearby enemies in a very small AoE, slowing them by
(20/24/29/33/38)% and gains (15/21/27/33/39) bonus armor for each enemy hit for
4 seconds. For the next 3 seconds, his attacks heal him for 4% of his max hp.

Holy **** that's a ton of armor, and he heals too??? Well, all things considered, hitting more than 2 people with this would be.. Rare to say the least. It's a very short-ranged ability.

Cooldown - 6 seconds
Cost - 80 mana
Radius - 240 range



Ability 2 - Kai summons poisonous vines to snare a target, preventing movement
for (1/1.05/1.1/1.15/1.2) seconds. Poison seeps into the enemy, dealing (23/32/
41/50/59)+0.08 AP magic damage per second for (5/6/7/8/9) seconds.

That's a lot of damage. Similar to Tristana's E, but with higher damage, no passive, no healing reduction, and a sexy snare. Not very useful in teamfights, but extremely strong in the laning phase when its huge base damage can be put to good use.

Cooldown - 20 seconds
Cost - 75/90/105/120/130 mana
Range - 650 range



Ability 3 - Every time this ability reaches 15 stacks, Kai passively sends
out vine whips that deal (120/150/180/210/240)+1.4 Bonus AD physical damage to nearby
enemies. Kai gains 3 stacks each time an enemy champion attacks him, and 1 stack when attacked by a minion or neutral creep.
Kai also passively gains +(20/40/60/80/100) vision range.

This is what makes Kai scary. It's also what can make him not scary at all, it all depends on who you're up against and whether or not they are smart enough not to attack you when lots of them are nearby.

Cooldown - 0.5 seconds (Not reduced by cooldown reduction)
Radius - 475 range



Ultimate Ability (Toggle) - Kai reduces (20/25/30)% of damage taken and gains
(15/20/25)% bonus movement speed. While this is active, his Ability 2 does an
additional (2/4/6)+0.03 AD damage per second and has its duration increased by 2
seconds. His nearby allies gain half of the movement speed bonus.

Allows Kai to get more counterattacks off and make it into the middle of the enemy team. If the enemy team splits to avoid your counterattacks, they may fall out of position, helping your team pick them up.

Cooldown - 75/65/55 seconds
Cost - 32/36/40 mana per second (Every second costs an extra 15 mana)
Movement Speed Aura Range - 575





All feedback welcome, please be constructive with your criticism, if it sucks, that's fine but the reasoning for WHY it sucks is what I really want to hear. :P



This champion's damage isn't accurately represented through combo damage, but as I always do this, I might as well do it here.

I'm using my AD template, which is as follows

As always, I will assume that the champion in question has 120 AD at level 6 and 280 AD at level 18, with (45/160) of that coming from items. Since AP is mostly irrelevant, I won't be showing a burst chart for AP Kai.. No actual item effects (Such as Trinity Force or Sheen) will be included. Because of Kai's passive, he will have a bonus (12/75) AD in this test. (1200/2500 hp)

Level 6 Combo Damage
Q - Level 1: No Damage
W - Level 3: 287 Magic Damage
E - Level 1: 200 Physical Damage
R - Level 1: +118 Magic Damage to W
Autoattack - 132 Physical Damage
Total - 737 (Slightly below average burst damage, although his sustained damage in teamfights can be very high)
405 Magic Damage
332 Physical Damage


Level 18 Combo Damage
Q - No Damage
W - 532 Magic Damage
E - 569 Physical Damage
R - +301 Magic Damage to W
Autoattack - 355 Physical Damage
Total - 1757 (Almost exactly in the middle)
833 Magic Damage
924 Physical Damage


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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep | Commend by Copperratt » July 3, 2012 9:51am | Report
He seems way to overpowered. Especially his E, even if he isn't attacked. The bonus vision range would make him like a mobile ward almost. his ultimate is just way over the top, giving him the reduction on damage and giving him and allies movement speed. He doesn't seem like a magi though, he seems like more of a tank considering his ulti, his E, which is basically a overpowered thornmail, combine him with a thornmail, his ulti up, his E, and if he entangles an enemy. If he is level 18, he will take easily 70% reduced damage, do (based on how much an enemy attackes Kai for) over 240 damage in return if it is the 5th attack on Kai. If anything is underpowered on him, it is his passive. As it should at least give him a little more AD, like 5% not 1-3%. Thats like saying if he has 500 bonus health thats giving him a bonus 5-15 AD. not that much.

All in all, if some of his abilities were nerfed and his E was more like, every 8 or 9 attacks and did way less damage and his snare giving him less armor per champion hit, and if his W didn't snare for up to 1.75 seconds, it should be about 1.25 at Maximum.
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep | Commend by Lazukin » July 3, 2012 11:31am | Report
Copperratt wrote:

He seems way to overpowered. Especially his E, even if he isn't attacked. The bonus vision range would make him like a mobile ward almost. his ultimate is just way over the top, giving him the reduction on damage and giving him and allies movement speed. He doesn't seem like a magi though, he seems like more of a tank considering his ulti, his E, which is basically a overpowered thornmail, combine him with a thornmail, his ulti up, his E, and if he entangles an enemy. If he is level 18, he will take easily 70% reduced damage, do (based on how much an enemy attackes Kai for) over 240 damage in return if it is the 5th attack on Kai. If anything is underpowered on him, it is his passive. As it should at least give him a little more AD, like 5% not 1-3%. Thats like saying if he has 500 bonus health thats giving him a bonus 5-15 AD. not that much.

All in all, if some of his abilities were nerfed and his E was more like, every 8 or 9 attacks and did way less damage and his snare giving him less armor per champion hit, and if his W didn't snare for up to 1.75 seconds, it should be about 1.25 at Maximum.


The passive gives him about 10 free AD at the start, and by endgame, gives around 90 if he is at 3k hp. It's actually the main thing I'm considering nerfing, as it's worth a ton of gold. Like a ton.

I reworked E a bit, nerfing the vision range by 50, but honestly the E should not make him overpowered. His counterattack only comes into play when hit with autoattacks, and has a relatively small range. He is meant to be a tank, and generally you don't want to focus the tank, so I took that to a bit more of an extreme level. If more people agree with you, I guess I'll tone it down.

Nerfed his R's speed buff by 5%, although the durability part is intended, this is when he runs into the middle of an enemy team to initiate. Since he doesn't have a gap closer, he had better be tanky.

As for his first ability, you're only gaining about 70 armor from it (which is definitely nothing to laugh at) on average, and as a counter dps tank, you will most likely be hit by far more spells than autoattacks anyway, but again if I'm the only one who thinks it isn't overpowered I will change that XD


EDIT: As for him not seeming like a mage, I was attempting to make him a druid, although I can't change the title so I'm stuck with this. >_<


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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep | Commend by iownedya » July 3, 2012 12:16pm | Report
You know, you just made an OP champion. Atma's Impaler + 4 Warmog's Armor + Frozen Mallet = OP damage. Do the math!
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep | Commend by Lazukin » July 3, 2012 12:43pm | Report
iownedya wrote:

You know, you just made an OP champion. Atma's Impaler + 4 Warmog's Armor + Frozen Mallet = OP damage. Do the math!


Have fun farming that up O_O

That would put you at about 520 total AD (including base AD at level 18) with absolutely no resists except for your short Q armor buff. 520 is pretty crazy damage, but any AD with 4 items carry will outdamage you, it's just not a great build since you won't reach anyone and will run out of mana if you rely on your ult to catch people (dat cd). Other builds would have much better results, not to mention cheaper cost.

You could make the argument that your 5% hp heal will help you here, but alas you are a melee, and even if you do get someone with your frozen mallet, they will almost certainly be able to escape due to your low speed and the fact that most carries have some form of escape. (if they don't though, they are in a world of pain, lol).


All this aside, what do you think of the ability ideas? I am no Riot employee, and frankly do not know my balance as well as they do, so put your focus on the abilities themselves rather than the ratios and exact amounts of damage etc. I just put the ratios in because I like completeness :3


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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep | Commend by iownedya » July 3, 2012 1:28pm | Report
Lol... You win by camping in the brush and 3 hitting the squishies! Frozen Mallet forever slow.
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep | Commend by Lazukin » July 3, 2012 1:59pm | Report
iownedya wrote:

Lol... You win by camping in the brush and 3 hitting the squishies! Frozen Mallet forever slow.


Still really hard to farm up, but that would be hilarious, lol. Dat Q + Mallet, the new Garen.


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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep | Commend by reyndria » August 3, 2012 5:48pm | Report
well other than the insanity i'm seeing in the posts about 4 warmogs, the general idea of this champ really sounds neat. i main malphite...the build i use would be ridiculous with this, as long as i add frozen mallet.

i play a very weird solo top malphite, starting with a ruby crystal to get a heart of gold...i get away with that because wlong with my runes and his passive, i have about 900 hp at lvl 1. (insanity) anyway, heart of gold, boots, atmogs, mallet, frozen heart, then up HoG to randuins that build has been winning ranked games left and right when they dont ban him.

Anyway, not the point. point is, this build on your champion would probably make someone need a change of pants when they see him in lane. overall, you'd have a lot of health, which means more AD anyway, and THEN atmas, which would pretty much be gg.
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