Indeed. I have almost never played top before I started playing him. I found the lane really boring. But because of him, a single champion my opinion on that lane changed completely. All that is left are memories of dominating in games that I don't think will ever be able to occur again.

Yeah, I totally agree with pretty much everything you said. To me personally, he feels a lot idler in the sense that you just press W and stuff happens. I wouldn't mind the rework as much if they tried to stay true to his gameplay, but it is what it is.

The gimmick/mini game that they made him have with his legs I personally can't bring my self to like at all and whilst managing it does entail quite a bit of depth with it, I see it as being more tedious than enjoyable to maintain (though I can see how people would like it). Q and E quite standard spells, pretty boring in all honesty, especially since they both have a short delay between activating, which makes sense with his E I guess, though I can't say the same for his Q given its small hitbox. In essence, any champion with a gram of mobility can dodge his spells consistently.

Finally his ultimate. Yeah, it's cool and all but its applicability especially compared to his old one is limited. Sure it's fun to get a max range grab on a low health target, but that's hardly useful in team fights when most characters die in short space of time anyway. In a split push scenario, I can see it being useful but given its niche applicability, I am not too fond of it either.

I hope you can find something in him, though I can't see my self doing the same. Thank you for your praise and thoughtfulness. I would not mind the rework as much either if (as you have mentioned) most people didn't give up on it after a couple of weeks anyway.

Indeed, even if not by many Urgot will be missed.

Yeah, I can definitely see why people would like the change. The champion isn't for everyone and some parts of his kit can certainly feel counter-intuitive. I think the main reason for that is that a vast majority of players attribute a play style on to him that does not work very well (which in most cases is that of a typical ADC that he is certainly not). Or build items that cause him to die right after using his ultimate and attribute the blame on to bad kit synergy without exploring other options. He most definitely is not very flexible in what you can build or the way you should play if you want to be successful though he does have a lot of options if you are willing to sacrifice viability (as is the case with many champions).

As far as the tear goes for me having that item blended so well with the champion and added an extra element of fun, given that his Q restores half the mana on kill. Additionally, the power spike you get after completing the item was always something I looked forward to in a game. There is some form of weird enjoyment in stacking to achieve a benefit, similarly to how Nasus or Veigar does it.

Perhaps at first glance, he may not have seemed like a unique champion, however to me especially the combination of his kit, items and play style is what made it a truly unique experience. From my perspective, that very thing that made him unique to me, is now being traded off for a very typical character with a 'gimmick'. Speaking primarily of his legs empowering basic attacks. I would argue that his kit is more of a mess than it was originally, and only really blends thematically as opposed to gameplay.

My argument has always been, why sacrifice something that a people enjoy on the off chance that more people will like the change (which I imagine at least some that used to like him will do). But when you have an option to simply create another character (given that's what he basically is), instead of replacing I don't see it as reasonable in any way to do so. I think I would be a bit more accepting to his change if they tried to keep his feel and gameplay a bit more, however since they did choose to purely pursue him thematically, there is not one thing in his change that I loved in his original design.

Thanks for the comment. Well at this point there isn't much time left before his rework goes through. So enjoy him whilst you can.

Thank you for your comment. I just wanted to let you know that the match up section isn't all thoroughly checked and could be out of date or incorrect in some areas. Though I did include extensive detail on certain champions (mostly newer ones). If you encounter any issues or find something missing from it I am open to suggestion so long as you provide a fair amount of information about your encounter.

Sorry about the really late comment. I personally don't take it because due to lack of mobility you can hardly kite in fights not allowing you to use the sustain from it, where a health item would otherwise have let you live longer. I can see it being a bit more useful in 1v1's and small skirmishes though if you are planning to only split push.

Yes, I will update the guide shortly. Also seeing as there is no decent offensive replacement for an item you can rush this isn't really ideal. I would say that if you are doing well in lane you may want to either finish Manamune before building CDR or get a phage for a mix of offence, defence and kiting.

Yeah, I will update the guide for the new black cleaver recipe. Kindlegem is decent. As far as cull goes, the reason I would avoid it is you start with very bad mana issues. The only time I could see it being used is if you are in a very hard lane and you think you can farm it out. Although if anything a doran's blade is probably a better choice for that as it offers a lot more stats for the gold spent to help offset the early disadvantage you would otherwise be having.

He is if you build him correctly. Going full dmg will almost always result in dying unless your team has very strong peel. But bruiser build offers him enough defence to stay relevant and tanky enough to live.

Hey, again. I love those discussions. Sadly I will probably retire guide making for Urgot once the rework rolls in. It's quite sad that they are changing my favourite champion and perhaps your too. I have very little hope that I will enjoy the rework as I have been disappointed with 4 others already ruining the champion completely for me. As a final guide update I am planning on releasing extensive testing using the practice tool to compare a bunch of damage on every level and accounting for different scenarios. This will include masteries, item comparisons and runes. A small little treat for the Urgot fans. But I have a small glimmer of hope and I hope he will still remain fun for me. I will post results within a few days. Hopefully you will find use in them as well.

that'S pretty good for mid imo.
but I would go for BC instead of MR because mid you're more likely to stay do range fight unlike top where melee come into you.
and you are better with BC that apply on your spell and the mobility.

I hesitate for mid between going BC and IBG or Trinity and RFC so to get more nuke and more range on AA. BC and IBG is pretty nice on top bruiser build to AoE slow in AA range vs melee physical damage dealer.
mid you wanna nuke from afar asap imo. so I think that Trinity would be more efficient in it and going for both trinity and BC is stupidly gold inefficient since they share same uniqe passive and give you both to 20% CDR... so the Maw CDR become excessive.
One item I imo is pretty good for Mid is Banner of Command... unless your dealing against champ that rely on AA or deal Physical Damage... like Ezreal or MF. but against the standard AP magic damage dealer...
BoC
60 armor
30 magic resist
400 mana
10%CDR
an make a minion immune to magic damage... lol and look at the other mage not able to kill it, that make a minion that will stay there to fight that champ by your side and force jungler to come the mid to retreat and let the turret deal with the minion.
I 2 scenarios the gold is lost of the minion to your opponent, and you get that minion canon every minute by your side to help you in fighting your enemy opponent.

but well that's situationnal.
give you CDR magic resist, and good armor to cope with minion or jungler that would come on gank.

but Youmuu is a good thing more offensive ... I will add it in my mid item set and consider it aswell, but you might aswell goes for edge of night.
as OP said,... MR ArPen come last in calculus I think ... so your 20%armor reduction and the 20 Lethalithy which =20 ArPen @18 lvl will already had reduced the 30 base armor of most mid... so unless they build armor item... even with the runes armor they might be around 40 somehow... so 32 then 12... you got 45% of 12 armor= 6.1 armor...
12 armor or 6 armor... that aint that significant.

(error sorry %ArPen goes before Flat ArPen, ...)
(...so 40 ->32(from E)->18.5(from MR 45%)so now your lethality exceed the target armor, so you bring it to 0 but not further but seriously,... 0 or 5 will not change that much your damage. seriously get 6x lethality mark to reach almost 10 lethality so that with Youmuu you'll reach almost 30 base value ... and your E armor redux will deal with the remaining... a champ with 50 armor end up with 40 -your lethality... around 10 armor.
I don'T think it's worth going for more ArPen unless you see that many enemies Champ are getting few armor and getting harder to deal with.)

I've come to think that MR is better suited for Urgot as a Support... to apply grievous wounds mostly, since BC is just too much CDR to be taken in my support built.


After looking into lethality, exact math seam pretty fail unless endgame, just to vulgarize it and make it simple...
lethality is worth half(50%) of it's value as ArPen when you are at lvl 3
and each 3 next lvl increase that value by 10%...
so at lvl 6 it's worth 60% ArPen
at lvl 9 it's worth 70& ArPen;
and so on.
I didn't made the math yet to figure out how much lethality is needed to fill the gap between AD and ArPen same value.
lets do it here...
to a champ with 50 base AD vs an enemy with 30 armor at lvl 3.
+10AD = 60AD x0.7 =42 damage taken by the target.
with 10ArPen... 50AD x 0.8 =40 damage taken by the target.
with lethality... 50AD x 0.75 =37.5 damage taken by the target

Before the lethality ... ArPen would just need +20AD item to fill the 2 point difference between the 42damage of +10AD and the 40damage +10ArPen.
Now that gap is bigger... but I might guess that once you get one of the ADC final item that give +60AD or more like IE or BT or Youmuu's you filled the gap.
So AD will be more effective in the 6th first lvl of the laning phase.
but don'T benefit from item.
My point is, if you take same Champions facing each other, one with AD runes the other with Lethality, and both buy the same Item... then the champion with AD will have an initial advantage of few extra damage, 4 or 5 points per hit... that's huge for lvl 1 since you start around 50 base AD so it's 10% increase ... but with each item with AD you get... that initial value will become less and less significant will the lethality will increase the effectivness of the item AD.

What I mean... well and item with 60AD for a champ with no ArPen/lethality will worth 0.01/arpen less AD then the other Champ with lethality.
so lets go with a flat value of 10 Arpen which means 20 lethality vs lvl 3 target...

champion AD +60AD is worth +42 AD vs champ with 30 armor
(that's the base armor that all champ got)
let say that he got a skillshot that scale by 80%...
so that 60AD increase that skilklshot damage by 46
and that damage is reduced further by the armor to 32.2 damage to that target.

Champion Arpen +60AD is worth +48AD vs champ with 30 armor
(so as you see the item increase your AA by 6 more damage then for the AD Champ so the advantage of 4 or 5 more damage is now gone.
let go for the skillshot that scale with 80%AD...
60AD become 46 and that damage is reduced further by the armor to 36.8 extra damage to that skillshot, gained form that single item.

now I hear you saying ... yeah but AD champ will just buy Lethality item.. well if he do so, so does the Lethal Champ and so he just get even more Lethality and there still gonna be a gap that will grow deeper and deeper as you gonna stack AD bonus item.

Now Lethality Item are Expensive , as much as many AD item you would say, yes but jungler that invade got a redux to the cost by Skiping the serrated dirk and buying Poacher's dirk instead and since jungler early game is harder lethality on them is a waste... you better go for flat AD or AP so that your Damage at early stage is better and you clear the jungle faster with taking less damage so you can stack on 3 lethality item to 50 ignoring the base armor of any champions.

Unless you are a Snowball ADC who expect killing your lane rival before the lvl6 and before getting your first AD item of more than +60AD,... then you are better to go for Lethality and Stack Crit Chance +AD item as a standard ADC.

an alternate way for heavy AA ADC would be to get All the Crit. Damage runes which increase your crit damage by 45%; add to that IE... you get Crit Damage that deal almost 300% of your AD (295.51% exactly) so if you get 100% crit chance... that's another pretty insane scaling damage... each tiem AD is worth 3 times it's values... so... that same 60AD now worth 177.306 Bonus AD on your AA.

So lethatlity is more useful to physical damage spell spammer like urgot since those abilities cannot crit. and lethalithy is proven to be more effective mid and late game then flat AD.

just looking at the value of runes...
AD mark +0.95AD
lethalithy mark +1.6 lethality... =0.8 ArPen@lvl:3... 0.96 Arpen@lvl:6
therefor it's still the same... it's just less powerful as early as it used to be.

Now what about scaling AD?

scaling AD +0.13AD/lvl ... +2.43AD@lvl:18 not even 3 time more then the flat one... well it means that you don't get the advantage in the early game and still don't get any advantage of stacking AD items; It might be good for a jungler that is pretty safe early game and plan on getting lethality items so Scaling AD will give more AD in the endgame the the flat.
and Since too much arpen isn't worth ****... I mean 50 lethality/ArPen vs a 30 armor champ is not more effective then 30... so stacking too much isn't a good idea.
but 9x1.6 marks grant 14.4 lethality... almost 15 so with just one item you reach the 30 base armor and therefor ranged champs who don't bought any armor item will have an effective Armor of 0.6... let say nothing.
so now you only need one item with 15 lethality.
the same logic goes with MaPen you can get 16Mapen easy from runes so then just with Liandry's you get 30MaPen and it give you the freedom to take other boots, or reverse get the sorcerer boots and then build heavy AP item instead of Liandry's.
going AP is only good for AP jungler or healer since the support gear don't have much AP but Heal & Shield buff.

The build you have suggested is viable and can work really well in certain situations and/or enemy compositions. The only item I would encourage you to change is Mortal Reminder as it does not stack very well with Urgot's E due to the way League handles armor pen. % armor reduction first and then % penetration from the amount that has already been reduced. If your aim is to do more damage to tanks I recommend The Black Cleaver. If however you want to do more damage to squishies then the lethality items work a lot better. Otherwise any other damage item is also fine.

I want to stress that if opting for a lot of damage as oppose to defensive stats you will not be able to use your ult as effectively and especially not in the middle of a fight. On the other hand, if you wish to kite and poke or split push even, going for more damage is a valid choice.

The main reason I suggest more tanky itemisation is because I want to promote a more reliable play style no matter the scenario. With a more tanky build you have a lot more options and can even fill as your team's initiation. If you wish to follow the information provided in the guide then I strongly recommend following the build. If you however wish to keep your own build then most of the information located on this page will not be relevant. It is not that I do not acknowledge the different play style, but I simply wanted to avoid confusion especially for players who are just starting out as this champion.

As far as the lane in which you play goes, main reason I recommend top is due to the potential the teleport summoner offers. If you wish to play in mid lane make sure that your team composition isn't all AD, and avoid going against really mobile mages such as Ahri or LeBlanc.
As far as bot lane goes if you have a support that can lock down your enemy it can make it really easy to land your E and secure kills. Other than that, whichever lane you play makes no real difference on what you have to build. You can just as easily go full damage top lane as bot lane or mid lane. The only real thing you have to take into consideration are the matchups in each lane and learn how to play against them (avoid following the ones listed in the guide without verifying, the list may be moderately outdated).

The reason the lane you choose doesn't really matter is because you will be most likely rushing manamune during the laning phase/early game anyway. Unless both teams take a lot longer to group or you intend to split push, the items you choose won't have as much impact as they do in mid or late game. I hope that answers most of your questions. If you wish for me to comment further on each individual item I will be more than happy to do so. When picking your lane your priority should be in team composition, matchups and how comfortable you are with them. As an example if your jungler doesn't know how to play AP carry and you are mid you may have to choose an AP carry instead in order to not risk being a full AD team.