Kog'Maw Build Guide : Diamond AP Kog'maw - Acid Reign [25.04]

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Just another small comment; it feels weird that Muramana is placed in the first slot in the 'cheat sheet' build while the text post itself says to buy Liandry's first.

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That's reasonable. The current rationale is that this is what the final build looks like (as tear is the first item, and thus Muramana is in the first slot). The Core meanwhile is the actual build order.

But that may be unnecessarily confusing. I'll get some more input and then modify accordingly; thanks for the note!

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Yeah, I personally thought it was a similar vibe to champions that end up buying Archangel's first to stack it faster as well as have an earlier powerspike rather than delaying their first item by Tear's investment cost, but then I thought 'there's no way Kog'Maw actually wants that though does he' and had to check the written order.

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Hello! Noticed your guide was generally negative about Banshee's and Hourglass, which I get behind, but what about Frozen Heart? Compared to Banshee's and Hourglass it provides mana which seems like a more significant stat for this type of build, especially with Muramana's AD conversion and reliance on Kog's ultimate.

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Hey! Frozen Heart is definitely better than the other options for the reasons you've noted, but my main hesitation with it is that it makes an already-slow build even slower. I've already occasionally considered removing Rylais (or at least putting it one spot later in the build) this season because the build isn't ramping up to relevancy fast enough. Frozen Heart then, like other really nice defensive options such as Deadmans, all fall into the issue of making the build too slow.

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That's fair. I was mainly imagining buying Frozen Heart after 3 items since that seems to be the point where your 'core' is done and you can look at alternative choices, but if the loss of damage is too significant even at that point to make up for survivability I get it.

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Interesting S14 build.

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New season, new items to take into consideration! What with Mythics being removed and Liandry's losing its mana, perhaps Malignance might find some significance? Luden's Companion seems interesting as well.

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Yes it shall be updated! Actually I just spent last night going over what Kog'maw's new build order likely looks like. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbwM-ExFKsU&t=8221s

So my initial thoughts are that Malignance is worth rushing as a first item. Also after my test game with AP Kog (end of the video), Rylais will likely return to the order. It's just so hard to land multiple hits on a row if you don't have it!

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I really like this guide, but I have a question: Now that shadowflame has been released, should it not become part of the core build? It gives magic penetration in the form of the passive, it builds off of an item with an on-hit effect so building it as your second item could be good, and it gives health. Seems to me like it fits in this style of build quite well, but when should it be built (if at all)? Would be cool if you updated your guide to include shadowflame! I'd also like to know your opinion on First strike. Spellbook is great and has saved me on many occassions, but I also want to know your opinion on First strike since it could theoretically get you your items sooner.

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Season 12 itemization is upon us. Can't wait to see where Shadowflame and maybe the updated Horizon Focus may fit into the build.

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REALLY LOVE THIS GUIDE. i'M ENJOYING AP KOG SO MUCH TAHNK YOU MAN.

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Is ap kog still good? i think new presence of mind will be good on him

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Still fantastic, it spikes a bit earlier this season too at the cost of some raw mana compared to last season. I detail in the guide why I don't like Presence of Mind on AP Kog, namely that the overall mana regen it offers is generally less than Manaflow Band, and Manaflow already doesn't give enough mana for me to want.

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No reason you can't do both. Kog is mana hungry enough to make it a reasonable choice, especially with the across-the-board nerfing of mana on items. Admittedly a precision + sorcery rune distribution is completely at odds with what's stated in the guide, but that doesn't make it a bad idea. One option I don't see mentioned is phase rush, which could be great for kog since he has to stay at an appropriate distance, and it would generally help with his ability to kite and harass safely both in and out of lane. Then you take manaflow band, take transcendence to reduce the cd on your e, (it partially refunds your cds for a kill or assist after level 11 now, which is great when you consider how much power and utility his e provides) and scorch because it's the least terrible rune in that row. (who the hell takes waterwalking XD ) Then in the precision tree you take presence of mind for mana, and coup de grace because it synergizes with your ult by amplifying execution damage. The best part is that you're not giving up any damage by doing this because none of the runes listed by the guide do much for damage. (not a criticism, just pointing this out. As a side note, the clarity spell doesn't exist anymore outside aram but is still listed on the unsealed spellbook spoiler)

Or you could just swap out the resolve tree for the precision tree because adding a negligible amount of armor and HP doesn't actually help kog with being long range artillery, or even a mid-range mage. May as well have more mana and an execution damage amp instead.

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Precision + Sorcery isn't a bad choice, but it's not also not my favored choice.

1. I tested Phase Rush quite a lot prior, and found it underwhelming. I couldn't get it to activate when I needed it to (except like once or twice in the laning phase), and later on in the match when it was activating, it usually made no difference in the overall outcome of a fight. It wasn't useless, but generally wasn't making a meaningful impact.

2. Kog is only mana hungry if you exceed the barrage limit regularly. Otherwise, the amount of mana with biscuits and Manamune (which is now in the build order) is enough as long as the reserve bullets aren't dipped into regularly. Getting more mana options will only allow like, 1-3 extra shots later in the match because of the sheer amount of mana it takes to dip into the reserve.

3. Clarity is an option that can be picked from Unsealed Spellbook

4. I find the opposite to be true, that the amount of mana and damage added is largely negligible enough that I prefer having 15% more effective HP instead.

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I find that the new presence of mind is a must have for me when I am in teamfights because it gives me 1 or 2 extra bullets to clean up the fight every takedown. I also use it to sustain myself in the early lane by using the w for extra range sustained poke to refill mana.

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What do you think about RoA? I do it sometimes, vs burst comps

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Not much a fan of it. It slows down an already-slow build and raw AP isn't even a great stat for AP Kog. Would rather continue building up to the more magic-pen oriented choices instead.

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Kog'maw is disgusting, although he really is an interesting champion
I didn't read your guide thoroughly because I am not planning to play this champion whatsoever, but again, I know your other guides as I have commented, so I know that this will be useful for my friends and probably will share it with them :>

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Yo, AP Kogmaw is getting a buff next patch! (10.13)

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Pretty unexpected, but kind of nice! It doesn't change the build order but it does make AP Kog's late game even more powerful which is scary to think about.

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I think you should update your guide a little bit because he scales harder with AP now, 70% on his Q, and 35% on his R base damage boosted to 70% if the enemy is below 40%. I think it's possible to build pure AP and kill the backline with just 4 Rs.

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Fortunately after I redid the math, it seems that amplifying the base damage with Liandries and magic pen is still better overall. This is mostly because the base damage still vastly overshadows the AP scaling.

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Really??!! By the way, how hard does AP Kog'Maw scale? his AD build falls off HARD into the late game.

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He's like a not as ridiculous Kassadin

If your team gets good CC on 3-4 people you can just artillery the **** out of them and melt entire teams. From my experience Kog spikes HARD with Liandrys and hard again at level 16

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Then on a scale from 1 to 10, if Kassadin is 10 then how is Kog'Maw? Can he dual late-game monsters like Vladimir or Ryze?

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Kogmaw isn't a champ that's meant for 1v1 dueling so I'm not sure it's fair to rate him as such even though he's really strong late game. Also his on hit build doesn't fall off due to his W imo. He's a hypercarry if you bring him bot due to the opponents being unable to proerly build against him and the mechanics of his W.

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Hey Aqua Dragon, your guide was referred by a friend who's been using yours for a while. (As I've been using his build which is actually from you!)
I must say you're a life saver. Ever when I changed my starting item to Faerie Charm and Mana crystal, the early lane phase has been so much easier for me.
However, i did start out building Liandry's first for the burn and ult poke. But that's aside from the point why I wanted to comment on the guide.

I've got 200k+ mastery points on Kog'maw AP only, I absolutely love it. However , with the recent mage item changes, it's been a bummer I feel. Liandry's seems to be out of commission as a core item now. Even though I loved it so much early on. However, Crystal scepter has been buffed. that's good. The new Morello is basically old Liandry's, except it lacks the burn sadly...

I'm really puzzled on if things are still well for him mid since the item changes. People keep saying I should give up and just play Xerath....I tried playing him but it's just not the same. I can't give up on Kog mid, I've always loved it. :<
I really, really hope you can find a solution after item testing if things still work out with the new item changes and then post it here. I would really, really love to read it over.

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Howdy! Spurred on by your spirit, I found some time to fully update the guide once more.

I feel the new AP changes are completely manageable, and that Liandrys is not to be underestimated! Even without the raw magic pen on it, the sheer amount of base damage it adds over multiple shots (especially with Rylais) makes it still the single most damage efficient item for AP Kog'maw (I even redid all my calculations just to make sure!)

Happy AP Kog'mawing!

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Aww! thank you for the reply and so, so much for updating the guide! I really appreciate you took the time testing and updating.

I'm happy to see you still consider Liandry's to be picked up early. I've tested running Morello early on (by skipping Liandry's first)I felt like it was lacking it really hard...
I've never taken Crystal scepter this early though, I'm curious to see how it goes. Is it really that better than taking Liandry's first? I know you can chain and ult hits are really easy to 'spam' a bit more, but Liandry's burn is soooo gracious. Even on squishies I feel. Farming CS also feels a bit easier landing the last hit with R after E.
But you've done the numbers so you must be right.
Though... missing the magic penetration by not getting Morello at all feels perhaps lacking too? I know, the rest of the item is meh on Kog. I feel you.

You also say that Void staff is not core anymore even if it gives massive magic pene. especially since that's priority. It's still in your example finished build, but I'm just wondering in general: If you do not get the magic penetration (missing from Liandry's now since you don't get Morello) or from void staff at all, will you still do enough sufficient damage?

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I think it's perfectly fine to switch the order of Rylais and Liandries. I personally like Rylais more early on because landing two hits in a row ends up dealing more damage than any other item, and Rylais guarantees that landing those hits is feasible.

The lack of magic pen definitely sucks. Fortunately the new Liandrys burn seems to deal enough damage to make up for it regardless. In the super late game, I think you almost always will just build a Void Staff anyway. There's only a few situations I think you wouldn't, like if you're just so massively ahead that you can just dip into other items for a quick spell, or if your life is in so much danger that your damage doesn't matter if you're dead!

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Hmmm, alright. I thought it'd be really crucial to take Crystal scepter before Liandry's. That's good to hear. I feel the lane phase is a lot easier for me when taking Liandry's as enemies get poked so much with E (whilst I just CS and occasionally hit them at the same time) that they back off more often. And so it gives me more space to farm. However, It's true that you can land more its with the slow if you take Crystal scepter first. Maybe I can adjust it in each game now and then.

Yesterday I did a game with Kog again using your item set, I had to adjust a bit but eventually ended being really fed through mid-late whereas my other games were more cramped by testing morello first etc. Doable, but cramped...
I realized as well that Liandry's damage burn is still really great. Especially since I go for Crystal scepter early on too. It's a big deal because I else would've not gotten this item so early as I thought the missing Magic penetration would be too significant. But I was wrong...the two items are still better to get first I feel too.
And you're right about Void Staff, I just ended up building it anyway too as they had at least 2 tanks and the Magic penetration seemed really good. even if it's later in the game.

We'll see how this goes on. :)

Thanks so much again for the update the replies. Glad passionate Kog AP players like you are still out there!

Diamond AP Kog'maw - Acid Reign [25.04]

Diamond AP Kog'maw - Acid Reign [25.04]

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