Jungle Kassadin

[quote=Hamstertamer]I've been theorycrafting/experimenting jungle [[kassadin]] and actually it sounds far less silly to me than I first thought. First let me explain the reasoning on why I want to jungle him. Kass as a midlaner is what I would describe as a niche pick. He is extremely matchup dependent. Lane against your typical AP mage, you trade farm with him (I literally mean trade farm, neither can kill the other and you get CS). Lane against an AD burst champion, you get destroyed. Even certain mages are bad matchups. All in all : 1) I think it's pointless to main a champion if he's only viable in certain specific matchups. I want something that's good every game. 2) Kass is a bad laner overall. He never wins his lane, he just doesn't lose it. So what gives him jungling ability? - AA reset - AOE damage with his E (I think you should max E on jungle Kass, it's solid against raptors/krugs and you can prime it before you gank) - Naturally runs [[unsealed spellbook]], which reduces smite cooldown from 90 to 76 seconds (invaluable early game) - Later you can swap smite to something else like ignite I tried it and you can sustain until you can back to purchase [[skirmisher's sabre]]. The reduced smite cooldown is key to this. You can even clear your entire jungle solo (with no leash) going back only once to get your jungle item. Just like an [[evelynn]], you farm until you're level 6 and then become a solid ganker/counterjungler. From some point of view it feels like it's actually less greedy than playing him mid, where he literally just sits in lane and farms. What do you guys think?[/quote]

[quote=Prate_k]Oh I've actually played kassa in the jungle, quite a few times, and it works well if your team can hold their own until level 6, otherwise there is no way for you to scale and help them once you fall behind. I actually like his kit and his low range into a melee category. Some of the mid champs, I've tried, I've first taken them for a ride in the jungle and probably gotten to level 5+ just by that. TF and ekko. I believe I have also tried lulu. Occasionally I push in some rakan and braum for the fun of it in the normals.[/quote]

[quote=Hamstertamer]Rushing [[Enchantment: Cinderhulk ]] is the best build IMO. It gives him very fast jungle clear, which allows him to counter-jungle siice his ultimate is a solid escape. [[enchantment: runic echoes]] is pretty terrible on him because of his high cooldowns, it hardly speeds up his clear and gives no sustain (cinderhulk does both). Actually he doesn't need [[unsealed spellbook]]. With proper kiting he can jungle very well with standard damage/cdr runes : [icon=dark harvest size=30][icon=sudden impact size=30][icon=eyeball collection size=30][icon=ravenous hunter size=30][icon=transcendence size=30][icon=gathering storm size=30][/quote]

[quote=Prate_k]You can also get [[enchantment: bloodrazor]] using your slows and blinks as gap closers to land the autos. Going tanky after that really allows you to sustain long enough to blink out again. Not necessary to go cinderhulk, but maybe just [[bami's cinder]] for the faster clear then skip the whole jungle item anyways later on.[/quote]

[quote=Hamstertamer]I thought about Bloodrazor but apart from soloing the dragon I don't really see what it brings. No sustain, no AOE damage, which he both needs. Kass isn't about sustained DPS, he's too kiteable for that. Hell even on [[jax]], on which Bloodrazor is a natural buy, pros still go cinderhulk. Buying a naked [[bami's cinder]] without upgrading to cinderhulk is as sub-optimal as it gets. It only costs 600 gold to upgrade, frees one item slot, gives 100+15% more HP, and more than doubles the AOE damage.[/quote]

[quote=Zandesh]One could argue that most off meta champion picks can be used to jungle with, and even with a moderate success, but only at lower ELO's with less experienced junglers. And no this is not meant as an insult, but at this day and age with an extremely fast paced tempo, jungle camp nerfs and so forth, kassadin will not be a viable pick. Kassadin is item depended, and he will more than like never get to farm up effeciently enough to matter at any stage in the game, Nocturne - Lee - Shaco and so forth would counterjungle him out of the wazoo. Your pre-6 game will be weak, as he has zero dueling power towards meta junglers, and post-6 ganks will be useless since you don't really deal any damage, and at best only slows the opponent for a brief moment. Everything that Kassa offers is done better, and more effeciently by other picks.[/quote]

[quote=Hamstertamer][quote=Zandesh]One could argue that most off meta champion picks can be used to jungle with, and even with a moderate success, but only at lower ELO's with less experienced junglers. And no this is not meant as an insult, but at this day and age with an extremely fast paced tempo, jungle camp nerfs and so forth, kassadin will not be a viable pick. [/quote] I wrote this thread when [[hunter's machete]] still gave attack speed and before the scuttlecrab meta constantly forced early game interactions between junglers (before that you could just avoid them and play reactively). My idea was decent back then but I completely agree that now it's dead. The jungle changes killed like half the jungler pool already, so talk about Kassadin lol. RIP.[/quote]