Opinions on rune ranks

[quote=Searz]Taken from my guide: [quote][u]The power of a rune is decided by how good it is compared to the other runes in the same category. They are also arranged within the ranks. Best to "worst", left to right (best->"worst"). I will move a rune down if another rune does the same thing better.[/u] [h3][color=red][b]Marks[/b][/color][/h3] [b]S-Rank:[/b] ArP, MrP [b]A-Rank:[/b] AS, CrC, AD [b]B-Rank:[/b] MR, Armor [b]C-Rank:[/b] AP/lvl, MP5, CrD, AD/lvl, AP [b]F-Rank:[/b] HP, HP/lvl, Mana/lvl, Mana, CDR, MR/lvl [h3][color=yellow][b]Seals[/b][/color][/h3] [b]S-Rank:[/b] Armor, Dodge (Dodge belongs low in rank A without the dodge mastery) [b]A-Rank:[/b] MP5/lvl, MP5, HP/lvl [b]B-Rank:[/b] Armor/lvl, HP [b]C-Rank:[/b] AP/lvl, MR/lvl, AS, HP5/lvl, HP5, EP5, EP5/lvl, CrC, AP [b]F-Rank:[/b] MR, AD, CDR, Mana, Mana/lvl, AD/lvl, CrD [h3][color=blue][b]Glyphs[/b][/color][/h3] [b]S-Rank:[/b] MR/lvl, MR, AP/lvl, CDR [b]A-Rank:[/b] MP5/lvl, AP [b]B-Rank:[/b] CDR/lvl, Energy, Mana [b]C-Rank:[/b] Mana/lvl, Energy/lvl, AS, MP5, Armor, MrP [b]F-Rank:[/b] HP/lvl, CrC, AD, HP5, HP, AD/lvl, CrD [h3][color=orange][b]Quintessences[/b][/color][/h3] [b]S-Rank:[/b] AP, AD, ArP [b]A-Rank:[/b] HP, MS, HP5, Armor [b]B-Rank:[/b] MrP, MR, AS, CrC, MP5, Mana, CDR, EP5, GP10 [b]C-Rank:[/b] AP/lvl, Energy, Increased experience gain, Death-time reduction, MP5/lvl, Dodge, HP/lvl, CDR/lvl, MR/lvl [b]F-Rank:[/b] AD/lvl, Mana/lvl, CrD, HP5/lvl, Armor/lvl ----- ----- [h1]Why[/h1]Here's a few explanations for the ranks: [list] [*] CrD is just an overall bad rune stat. It doesn't help early on (when runes are the most influential) and it's not even better than CrC in lategame on an average carry build. [*] AD quints belong in rank S because they give humongous early damage and scale with crit and some spells. CrC only scales with normal attacks, are only useful on crit builds and deals much less damage early on. CrC is more powerful in lategame, but not by much ([url=http://www.mobafire.com/league-of-legends/forum/theorycrafting/your-graphing-resource-1950?page=1]graphs[/url]. AD quints are basically a much better version of CrC quints. The same doesn't apply to AD and CrC marks though, since AD marks have smaller stats compared to AD quints. (CrC quint=2 CrC marks, AD quint=2.37AD marks) [*] [url=http://i1108.photobucket.com/albums/h408/Searz/Dodgevsarmorseals.png]Here's a graph comparing the damage mitigation of dodge and armor seals on normal attacks[/url]. Keep in mind that dodge is useless against physical spells. In quintessences armor has a bigger value, while dodge remains the "same" (dodge quint=2 dodge seals, armor quint=3.02 armor seals). That's why dodge quints are rarely good on anyone. [url=http://i1108.photobucket.com/albums/h408/Searz/Dodgevsarmorquints.png]Here's a graph comparing the damage mitigation of dodge and armor [u]quints[/u] on normal attacks[/url]. [*] AP quints belong in rank S because their stats are huge. They're usually are better than MrP quints on all champions with a decent AP ratio (over ~0.23 per 100flat dmg) because it's only in lategame (when your skills have the max base damage) that MrP quints are really effective ([url=http://www.mobafire.com/league-of-legends/forum/theorycrafting/your-graphing-resource-1950?page=1]as seen here[/url]). Before lategame AP is pretty much always stronger, unless you're playing someone like [[Ryze]] who scales with mana and has bad AP ratios. Also keep in mind that AP is most likely the best choice on champions with abilities that doesn't deal magic damage. Heals, shields and things like that. [*] HP quints don't belong in rank S because they are often not the best choice. They are however still the most universal quints and are still strong. [*] HP5 quints belong in rank A because it takes 48seconds for a HP5 quint to give the same amount of HP as a HP quint would. For the duration of your laning phase HP5 is a stronger choice if you aren't scared of being squashed by enemy nuke. So they're very strong on tanky champions. The thing that makes HP5 quints a little less viable (on most champions) than HP quints is that they're bad outside of the laning phase. [*] GP10 quints are a little weak. It's a good [u]stat[/u] for some champs (supporters ofc), but they will need a buff to be really viable. Even supports are often better off with other runes. 1.5GP10 would in my opinion be the perfect number. That would move them to the top of rank B. [*] AS seals and AS glyphs. The stats they give are very small and they are imo kinda bad runes. I know AS is a good early stat on carries for lasthitting, but I just can't see that as more useful than beefing yourself up with armor and MR, to be overall stronger in the lane. Some junglers take AS glyphs for more speed, but the small amount they will speed you up (probably below 5sec) is negligible compared to the other things you could pick up instead. Some junglers might even get faster with CDR glyphs than with AS and CDR isn't useless outside of the jungle like the AS glyphs are. [/list][/quote] Read the explanations and please give me some opinions. Is there something I should be explaining that I'm not, is there missing/incorrect info or whatever you can think of, GOGO DISCUSS.[/quote]

[quote=Jebus McAzn]Agree with basically all of it. Why do you support flat AP glyphs over scaling AP when scaling AP is higher on your list?[/quote]

[quote=Searz]Wat? I've never supported flat AP glyphs. That would be flat AP quints.[/quote]

[quote=Searz]Keep in mind that the ranks are now ordered in greatness from left to right (best->"worst"). Updated the AP and AP/lvl seals&glyphs. I forgot to use the latest version.[/quote]

[quote=EvilDice]This is just based on personal opinion and experience. Marks - Armor ain't bad... Maybe move it up a tier but that's all I got for marks. Seals - I would probably move mp5/lvl up a tier. They surpass mp5 at level 7, which is super quick. They are also standard on pretty much any caster. Glyphs - AP can go up a tier. It's kinda situational whether you use flat AP or ap per level, but both are equally strong. MrP should at least be moved up in C tier.. It's not too bad early game if you want lane dominance on a caster with low AP ratios. Quints - I believe HP and MS quints are both a tier above everything else listed in A tier. Other than that it is spot on.[/quote]

[quote=Searz][quote=EvilDice] Marks - Armor ain't bad... Maybe move it up a tier but that's all I got for marks.[/quote] Nah, they're about where they should be. They're below runes that are a tad bit stronger and above those a little weaker. [quote]Seals - I would probably move mp5/lvl up a tier. They surpass mp5 at level 7, which is super quick. They are also standard on pretty much any caster.[/quote] MP5 and MP5/lvl are about equal imo. Flat MP5 is good because in most cases you'll need mana-reg in the lane, more than anything. I did bump MP5/lvl up above MP5 for the time being tho. Have you tried a combo of 5 flat MP5 and 4 scaling? I like it a lot. [quote]Glyphs - AP can go up a tier. It's kinda situational whether you use flat AP or ap per level, but both are equally strong. MrP should at least be moved up in C tier.. It's not too bad early game if you want lane dominance on a caster with low AP ratios.[/quote] AP/lvl is generally stronger, but it's not by a big margin. Also look at where they are in the ranks; flat AP is at the top of rank B while AP/lvl is at the bottom of rank A. Still, I am considering bumping flat AP glyphs up to rank A, right after AP/lvl. [quote]Quints - I believe HP and MS quints are both a tier above everything else listed in A tier.[/quote] Nope, both are right where I want them. I consider HP, HP5 and MS to be about equal in strength, but HP5 might get bumped up as I play more with them (they're relatively new in my arsenal).[/quote]

[quote=Searz]Moved AP and AP/lvl glyphs up one position each(really small change). I'm considering moving AP/lvl marks and seals up a little(one or 2 positions, not ranks). I did some graphs on MrP marks and AP/lvl marks and saw that the difference wasn't as big as I thought.[/quote]

[quote=Searz]*bump* Sooo, after finally graphing ALL the AP runes I've moved most of them up a little. I just had them a little bit too low. I also moved down the HP5 quints in rank A because they're not very good outside the lane, while others are. (and moved a couple of low ranking runes around) What I'm considering now is moving armor quints up above HP5 quints. Opinions?[/quote]

[quote=Temzilla][quote=Searz]What I'm considering now is moving armor quints up above HP5 quints. Opinions? [/quote] They break even with HP Quints @ 610 health, and they make sustain characters, and potion starts much better. I would say armor/mr > health on any sustain character such as Cho'Gath or Udyr. But on a character with a bad early laning phase it's hard to say. I'm kind of addicted to flat mr/armor glyphs/seals lately though, they are super good in lane.[/quote]

[quote=PotatisFarfar]Culd not really agree more... The few runes i have is top tier. Really starting to love AP/lvl seals...[/quote]