Advice on Jungle Warwick

[quote=Luther3000]Hey, I figured this was probably the best place to post this. Basically I have been testing Warwick in custom games for several days now, and I'm still a little unsure on what masteries to use. My runes are ArP reds, Armour yellows, MR blues, health quints. I know they aren't 100% optimal but I don't really feel like buying new ones right now. I've more or less narrowed it down to 9/0/21 (as in Searz' guide) or 21/0/9 (as in Xenasis' guide). Presumably 9/0/21 would be more valuable later in the game, but it seems to be slower and less safe in the jungle to the point where (with my current runes) I'm unable to do either jungling route with a longsword. WIth the 21/0/9 build jungling seems to be faster, safer, and I can start with a longsword and survive. Advice pl0x. Build advice would also be appreciated, this is the build I was thinking of using (depending on enemy team comp): Cloth armour + pots OR longsword + pot > boots > madred's razors > merc treads / sorc shoes > wit's end > spirit visage > chain vest > madred's bloodrazors > sunfire cape > banshees veil TL;DR: I r n00b warwick plz halp[/quote]

[quote=Searz]9/0/21 is about 15sec slower than 19/0/11. I dunno how fast 21/0/9 is, but you'll sacrifice 22.5sec buff time, which I don't think is worth it. You probably need a 10%AS boost to be able to jungle Long Sword safely. Gogo buy ArP quints and AS marks :3[/quote]

[quote=Luther3000][quote=Searz] 9/0/21 is about 15sec slower than 19/0/11. I dunno how fast 21/0/9 is, but you'll sacrifice 22.5sec buff time, which I don't think is worth it. You probably need a 10%AS boost to be able to jungle Long Sword safely. Gogo buy ArP quints and AS marks :3 [/quote] Dammit man, I'm not made of money. I don't even have enough runepages for that :c. Also, is the build okay? Granted it's pretty much the same as the one you had in your guide, so I guess it is :P.[/quote]

[quote=Searz]Note that the 15 sec slower is on the AGGRESSIVE PATH. The other paths are about equal. 21utility ftw :3 Those 10% AS are from runes AND masteries.(just to let ya know) Build seems fine. I'd prolly build Bloodrazor as the last item tho, but I don't play WW enough to say for sure anymore.[/quote]

[quote=Trojan995]You can also achieve the AS bonus using 7 ArPen marks, 2 AS marks, and 3 AS quints. [url=http://solomid.net/guides.php?g=1562]TheOddOne[/url] shows you how to rune and mastery properly. I'm a fan of more AS in runes than he has, but that's just preference.[/quote]

[quote=Luther3000]I just tried it and ended with 5/4/9 score using the 21/0/9 mastery build. Unfortunately we lost pretty badly, and I found myself not really being able to gank at all and running out of mana once I started giving away blue. I'm not sure I see why Warwick is such a prized jungler; he seems to be slower than Xin and his ganks are worse. Even at post level six I would argue Xin's charge + knockup is still almost as good as Warwick's ultimate, and Xin does A LOT more damage. Xin is also literally incapable of running out of mana. Xin being the only jungler I can currently play half-decently :P. PS. Searz, I don't suppose you could post the 19/0/11 masteries you spoke of in full? Not sure exactly what to prioritize on Warwick in offence (since he does both types of damage).[/quote]

[quote=Xenasis][quote=Luther3000] I just tried it and ended with 5/4/9 score using the 21/0/9 mastery build. Unfortunately we lost pretty badly, and I found myself not really being able to gank at all and running out of mana once I started giving away blue. I'm not sure I see why Warwick is such a prized jungler; he seems to be slower than Xin and his ganks are worse. Even at post level six I would argue Xin's charge + knockup is still almost as good as Warwick's ultimate, and Xin does A LOT more damage. Xin is also literally incapable of running out of mana. Xin being the only jungler I can currently play half-decently :P. [/quote] The difference being that Xin's Q takes three shots to knock up, Warwick can flash > ult onto you and without any delay you're surpressed. His ganks are far BETTER, not worse! I'd say it was just because you're more experienced with Xin. WW is so prized because he has such insane sustainability (and can take ANY route, pretty much - which means he's super hard to successfully counter jungle too, he can just kill anything with anything, so him not having his blue buff or a camp down (for example) is by far the end of the world), has some of the best ganks in the game, has decent speeds, and the items fit in PERFECTLY. For example, compare WW with, say, Tryndamere. Does Tryndamere normally buy a Madred's? Nope. Does Warwick? Yup. He builds one into his Bloodrazor, or gets a Wriggle's. If you're running oom, don't Q anything! Funny you should mention speeds, WW and Xin are pretty much on-par speed wise. You can test it using times if you really want but they won't be too far apart.[/quote]

[quote=Trojan995][masteries=http://www.mobafire.com/league-of-legends/mastery-tree-planner#&tree1=3-0-1-0-4-4-0-1-3-2-1-0-0-0&tree2=0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0&tree3=0-3-1-0-4-0-1-0-2-0-0-0-0-0-0] This is the 19/0/11 masteries I would use. Get the ghost mastery if you take ghost.[/quote]

[quote=Luther3000][quote=Xenasis]The difference being that Xin's Q takes three shots to knock up, Warwick can flash > ult onto you and without any delay you're surpressed. His ganks are far BETTER, not worse! I'd say it was just because you're more experienced with Xin.[/quote] Well, in fairness I never really got a chance to try in this game. We lost our first tower I think before I even reached six, and there never really seemed like any oppertunity to gank. I still think Xin brings a lot more damage to his ganks though; it seems like Warwick is very reliant on the laner having a lot of damage. Maybe just me though. I actually did get counterjungled, they took my wraiths as I was going blue to red route, I just did minigolems first and wraiths respawned while I was fighting them. [quote=Xenasis]If you're running oom, don't Q anything![/quote] I was talking more about mid-game once I'd begun to give away blue here as opposed to in the jungle, but yeah that Q is damn tempting to use and takes like a bajillion mana :c. [quote=Xenasis]Funny you should mention speeds, WW and Xin are pretty much on-par speed wise. You can test it using times if you really want but they won't be too far apart.[/quote] Must be just me, but it feels like Warwick's move speed (not jungling speed) is slower. I've just checked and it isn't, but it felt that way to me. Maybe it's because he has no dash move or something.[/quote]

[quote=Xenasis][quote=Luther3000]I actually did get counterjungled, they took my wraiths as I was going blue to red route, I just did minigolems first and wraiths respawned while I was fighting them. [/quote] "Successfully" That's the point, you can just run around and kill everything else without it effecting your jungle, if a Tryndamere (for example) was starting at wolves and had his Wraiths taken, he would literally be screwed and might even need to get a leash on golems or steal some lane XP.[/quote]