best off tank/tank jungler???

[quote=Luther3000][quote=The Overmyynd] [[rammus]] would be awesome if he wasnt perma banned at low to mid ELO. Just something to keep into consideration. Other than that he is amazing, he is one of the people that is perma-banned because he DESERVES to be, he is truly over powered. [/quote] Erm, not really. Definitely not since the nerfs.[/quote]

[quote=The Overmyynd]Suppose i havent actually seen a good one in awhile, since he gets banned so often. So i don't really know exactly how hard the nerfs hit him. I remember when he was op, tho. The taunt still lasts for freaking ever, and he is still hard as hell to kill.[/quote]

[quote=AFKwithyoursister][[Udyr]],[[Olaf]],[[Shyvana]], basically everyone has been said.[/quote]

[quote=Embracing]Definitely not Rammus. He's way too vulnerable to counterjungling. (Staple route + blue dependency) Mundo currently replaces Shyv in the jungle (Mundo same power-clear as Shyv but better late game) Shaco's not an offtank so no Amumu is good but somewhat vulnerable to counterjungling. Riven is sorta like lee sin. Her clear is decent and her ganks are godlike. Maokai is like Ali, pretty much there for the CC. Maokai can be counterjungled tho :/ Cho-gath is good in the jungle ^ ^ Jarmander is also pretty good, though kinda dependent on blue.[/quote]

[quote=Opaque_Shadow][quote=RosePhoenix] Definitely not Rammus. He's way too vulnerable to counter jungling. (Staple route + blue dependency) [/quote] Actually when your team either counter invade for their blue or stops the initial invasion you can shut down counter jungler's fairly quickly. I have personally wrecked many a [[nunu]] when paired with a good team. Also the nerfs wrecked [[rammus]]'s initial clear, but he is still very strong once he gets rolling and with a few good ganks he can come back from that and resume being OP. I will agree that there is a large hole in his jungle ability, but it is a hole easily filled by good allies.[/quote]

[quote=MasterShorty][quote=Luther3000] [[udyr]], [[mundo]], [[shyvana]] [/quote] ^this also Amumu....YOU MUST PLAY AMUMU[/quote]

[quote=Worthbear]Well I tend to find [[Volibear]] is good for going tanky since he stacks health anyway [[Dr. Mundo]] i tend to find lacks the ganks but makes up for it in late game being nearly impossible to kill[/quote]

[quote=Lugignaf]I'm actually surprised that nobody mentioned [[Xin Zhao]]. While he's not the best late game champ, he can snowball a game real easy IMO. Also, people build him badly. That's why he "sucks" to pretty much everyone.[/quote]

[quote=Luther3000][quote=Lugignaf] While he's not the best late game champ [/quote] That's something of an understatement. :P[/quote]

[quote=Embracing][quote=Opaque_Shadow] Actually when your team either counter invade for their blue or stops the initial invasion you can shut down counter jungler's fairly quickly. I have personally wrecked many a [[nunu]] when paired with a good team. Also the nerfs wrecked [[rammus]]'s initial clear, but he is still very strong once he gets rolling and with a few good ganks he can come back from that and resume being OP. I will agree that there is a large hole in his jungle ability, but it is a hole easily filled by good allies. [/quote] Which is implying that Rammus only works in certain scenarios where the enemy jungler is weaker / less focused on counter-jungling and also where you have a strong lvl 1 team that allows you guys to invade. What you're saying is basically the same thing as "Though easily counter-jungled and vulnerable to early ganks, Eve is a top jungler because she gets stronger late." The meta right now is a fastpaced meta. Yes I agree that Rammus is a strong ganker. The problem is getting shit on early. Rammus versus Shyv Rammus versus Mundo Rammus versus Udyr Rammus versus Noc Rammus versus Shaco All definite losses if both sides play at the same skill cap Why? Because Rammus cannot prevent invasions. Rammus is vulnerable. Get a strong lvl 1 team, steal blue = Rammus is screwed. Strong counterjungler = Rammus is screwed. The top picks for the junglers in the meta are the aggressive junglers.[/quote]