LoL Community issues aren't just in-game.

[quote=Crows foot]Thing is, many people take others "truths" and repost them all over the internet. So if you just state something without saying "this is my personal opinion" then you are stating a truth in fact. I can say that a cloudfree sky is blue. That is a statement of fact. If I say that I percieve the sky as blue, I am open with that others might percieve it differently. Stating something as a fact never brokers a good conversation.[/quote]

[quote=lifebaka]Rhetoric 101 time. Putting things like IMO on your points is a way to weaken them. If you're trying to convince someone of something, don't say it. If you're trying to make people not argue with you (which they won't, because they can just ignore your "opinion"), feel free to say it. To take the blue sky example, there's an obvious difference between saying "The sky is blue." and "In my opinion, the sky is blue." While the second affords you some protection from people disagreeing with you, it also makes you sound weak, unassertive, and like you're backing down from confrontation before even being confronted. People do things like this all the time, of course, degrading arguments down to opinions or beliefs, as a way of defending the things they hold to be true and as a way of attacking things other hold to be true (comments such as "well that's just your opinion" are a prime example of both). It's a wonderful defense mechanism, even though it's basically just shoving cotton up your ears and making loud buzzing noises instead of thinking. A lot of people have even been trained to think and argue this way, because of how effective it is.[/quote]

[quote=Kazega]I agree with Baka. You would be surpised how the human mind is conditioned to make up rules. And to be frank, even if you put something like "IMO" in your posts, I will argue them if I don't agree with them, and find that argueing those points are worth my time and effort. But since I mentioned how the mind makes up rules I feel obligated to link this Day[9] Video. [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-9VLVkm8R4]Here[/url] I recomend you follow along, you will need a sheet of paper and a writing tool.[/quote]

[quote=The Overmyynd]Well the original post was about him posting something and someone calling him stupid for his opinion. Making your argument 'softer' also makes it less likely people will come after you and calling you stupid, because people are more willing to accept a 'softer' opinion without taking offense than a very solid argument. People usually rage when they feel insulted. Taking the 'softer' approach is a good way to get by on this site until you get experienced enough to handle the rage with straight facts and fight on an intelligent level.[/quote]

[quote=Kazega]I am sorry, but being "softer" is not the way to be. I will be blunt. I will tell you what I think of your guide ina brutally honest way. I shouldn'thave to be "softer" to preserves the self worth of someone else. If I don'tcome at you with full force then what was the point of even going at you in teh first place? Yes it might be rough on newer members, but it is also the easiest and most efficient way to teach someone. Those who will want to be stronger, smarter, faster, or whatever will seek out those that are better than them to attain that goal. If I pull punches, it benifits no one[/quote]

[quote=The Overmyynd]No. Thats stupid. You dont make someone smarter by telling them they are stupid, then outlining exactly how and to what extent they are stupid. you tell them where they have been misinformed, then re-inform them properly. Just saying "you are wrong" won't do anything to change their mind. In fact, it may do the opposite. They may stick to their opinion just to spite the random asshole on the forum that probably has no idea what he is talking about. Why would you want to "go after" someone in the first place? If you want to truly help someone, make sure they listen to you by speaking to them in a way they will respect. Do all the children in America a favor. Don't become a teacher. How's that for 'not pulling any punches'?[/quote]

[quote=crossfire]Alright guys, people have different views on this subject. Some people prefer to blunt and other like to be nice. One person is not "wrong" and another isn't "right" they're just different. Oh and Overmyynd I really don't think what Kazega does is wrong. Sure it might cause some people to react that way, but others will still listen and reply, but think "Hey this guy's an ass" He tells people the exact samt thing as you. Albit not as nicely.[/quote]

[quote=Kazega]Here is a little story, jsut some food for thought to help puncuate my point of view on this. While i lived in Tucson, I studied Tang Soo Do, A Korean Martial art that is thought of as a grandfather to Tai Kwon Do. My Instructor was an older man who is a 2nd degree Black belt. His teaching style was pretty straight forward,once a week his students would spar, and every so often he would participate in this sparring. I was pretty impatient back then and I grew tired of sparring him so often. Even though he was a challenge I felt like I needed somone fresh. So when the oppertunity came to attended my instructor's master's sparring class I jumped in head first at the oppertunity. I had the oppertunity to spar with the master for a few rounds, I'm pretty sure it was 7 or so rounds but that's not the point. I landed on hit on the Master, the first hit of the first round. From their I was kicked,punched, and roundhoused into defeat. It was at that moment that my body came to realize what my mind knew: The peak was still very far away. So what does this have to do with "going full force" and "not pulling punches?" Well it means everything really. I can't measure where I am at accurately if I don't give it my all when it matters. I "go after" opponents not to humiliate them, but to see if I can defeat them, much like I am going after you in this argument we are having. I know that just saying "no you are wrong" and leavignit at that is the dumbest arguement I have ever heard and it accomplishes nothing for me. I know that to argue against someone you need rational thought and factual information. If I win that means you weren't strong enough. If I lose I wasn't strong enough, and I should get stronger. It is as simple as that. I will give you some credit. You are correct in saying that I will be a terrible school teacher, but I am not here to teach. I am here to guide. and my method to guiding is to encourage seeking out and fighting strong opponents. And whenyou get to be strong enough, be that person that others will seek outto be stronger while you strive to be stronger still. That is what it means to live in this world.[/quote]

[quote=The Overmyynd]OK, from one fighter to another, here is a story of my own. I too am a martial artist. I have studied Brazilian jiu jitsu, muy thai, TKD, and good old fashioned kick boxing while training for MMA. In the process of my BJJ training, early on, I felt pretty good about myself. After a few lessons I found that I caught on very quickly, and was soon able to hold my own against students that had been attending lessons twice as long as I have, and more. But when it came time to spar with my instructor, there was simply no contest. His movements were fluid, flowing from defense to attack with a speed and fierceness that i could hardly keep up with. Most times, it was all I could do to defend, and keep him from submitting me for the full round, let alone even think about going on the offensive. It got to the point to where I felt as though I was making no progress, and was about to quit. Then my good friend Daniel, who brought me into the sport to begin with, sat down with me, and together we analyzed our instructor, identifying common combos and transitions he went through. After a few weeks of observation, I went into another sparring match with him. Through study and effort and constantly getting my ass handed to me, I had learned enough to be able to surprise him with a very complicated throw, and was able to submit him via Giftwrap. It was one of the greatest moments in my fighting career, and one that I shall never forget. The point is, it was a combination of getting destroyed over and over again, AND hands on study and encouragement by my peer that lead to my victory. The thing we have to remember, as fighters with that kind of a mindset, is that alot of the people on this forum do not share the attitude of "kick my ass today, I'll only come back stronger tomorrow" attitude. You and I can learn all we need to by getting our heads kicked in, others may not be able to. Being honest and brutal can sometimes work. Other times, a softer approach is necessary. Those like us are not the only people that deserve to learn.[/quote]

[quote=Otaku108]hmmm, I don't think it's about being "softer" but adding something constructive to your counter point to whatever I've posted. Being harsh is one thing, being harsh without any input as to why you disagree is a whole other. I'm not so soft skinned as to be upset for someone disagreeing with me strongly or even to the extreme. All I really ask is that you give me the reasons, not just the criticism.[/quote]