Is this Viable?: Ali Build

[quote=Naroji]Basically, I have been building an Alistar for a while that is based around early tankiness. In my time working on it, I have had some great sucesses, and even my failures haven't been too bad (one of my absolute worst was 3/8/15, which I feel is still not bad based on his intent). I always get amazing amounts of assists and nearly always complete my build, taking down at least two turrets. However, after having a similar situation with an AP Ali build that I originally ran (for nearly two years), I am not 100% confident in my custom builds... I guess the point I'm trying to make is this: I am afraid that I am making majorly noob mistakes in my build. [url=http://www.mobafire.com/league-of-legends/build/early-rise-alistar-get-the-worm-300821]Early Rise Alistar[/url] I have based him around getting Warmog's ASAP, which I feel is a good strategy that leads to a lot of kill assists with an incredibly tanky character early game, which leads to less power as I go on, ending with a bit more power late game which sustains pretty well to the end, particularly once I have gotten Spirit Visage. I have also included a few of the strategies that I employ, which make good use (I believe) of my Alistar Build. The main items I would like looked at, if you have the time are: [list=1] [*] Is Warmogs a good near-starting item [*] Is my strategy of using second brush to gank enough of an out-of-left-field idea that it will remain mostly unexpected [*] Is my gank strategy a viable option against most aggressive mids [/list][/quote]

[quote=Lugignaf]A couple things. 1: You're not allowed to link your build. That should've been a pop-up when you tried to make this post. 2: Clarity is generally bad. Flash is a 100% better substitute because it allows you to suddenly [[pulverize]] from out of nowhere. 3: [[Berserker's Greaves]] are generally bad for Alistar. 4: I'm just going to skip over specific things and tell you straight out, this build is pretty bad. Warmog's is not a great starting item without free defense stats, or a way to deal damage without building it. Ali does neither of these. Tear of the goddess, again bad. You don't get any power from it. You have [[Artificer]] and no active items. You're taking [[bladed armor]] for seemingly no reason. By the time you get any [i]real[/i] defensive items, the game's probably over. You have no skills maxed by level 9 which leaves you generally weaker than an opposing Alistar who specced into maxing something by 9. TL;DR, you have [b]a lot[/b] of work to do on it.[/quote]

[quote=Naroji]1: I read the rules section before posting this. It said that if I was asking specific questions about my build for improvement, then it was acceptable to link my build 2: I picked GHOST (not clarity) because I didn't want something with a much longer cooldown time that will do more harm than good, if you ask me, especially since I have had little-to-no practice with it, and when I did use it, found the range to be incredibly disappointing. 3: I used to build Ionian Boots of Lucidity, but I proved to be too slow for what I was doing, and I have found that I am much more likely to assist an ally if I am able to get to them quicker 4: I kinda wanted specifics, not just a general score, but I get it, you think that there is way too much to list I don't see why a tank character needs to deal a shitton of damage, when the whole point of this build is support, not kills. Tear of the Goddess, same issue, I am trying to maximize my stuns and knocks before I have to B, not do major amounts of damage. I must have hit artificer by accident, as I did not have that in my actual build in-game. Furthermore, according to the in-game description, bladed armor apparently affects minions as well... but that seems to not be on here, I will have to double-check that. Also, I have been playing this game for quite a damn long time (either three or four years, I forget how long) and have YET to see another Alistar. EDIT: I remember now why I picked artificer, and the reason was simply to get the biscuit... I simply picked the wrong one, because I only glanced at my mastery page while I was making the build, fixing it now.[/quote]

[quote=Lugignaf]Yes, bladed armor works on minions. No, it's not useful as a support. As a support, you're not really supposed to be hitting the minions, except in few cases. This [i]kinda[/i] forces you to damage them. [[Ionian boots of lucidity]] and [[Berserker's Greaves]] give the exact same movement speed. Only ones faster are [[Boots of swiftness]](and not by much) and You have [[clarity]] and [[ghost]] in your cheat sheet... If you say you have been playing for three or four years, that's probably a lie. A: Game hasn't been out for 4 years yet. <_< B: I've won more normals than you've played and I've been playing for about 2. Alistar is almost 100% a free champion with his low pricepoint and the fact that they [b]give him away[/b] for subscribing to their youtube channel. I'm saying that building warmogs is bad because you have no damage, while still building tanky, or you don't have any way to back up the sheer health you're stacking. People who can get away with it are [[Sejuani]], [[Volibear]], [[Garen]], [[Mundo]], etc. They deal good damage without damage items, or have some defense to keep that health. If you want mana to use spells, just get a [[philosopher's stone]] instead. Gives HP5 in so you don't [i]have to[/i] heal as often, MP5 so you [i]can[/i] heal more often if you want to, gold generation, so you're not kill/assist reliant because the ADC is getting all the CS like they should, and it builds into great items like [[Ohmwrecker]] or [[Shurelya's Reverie]] for initiates. Next, if you are doing a support role, like it [i]seems like[/i] this build is made for,(not completely sure what lane you're going in) you need to buy wards. Oh, and I didn't look at them before, but your rune choice is horrid as well. Attack speed runes on a tank, who you said isn't supposed to deal damage, is counter-intuitive. Mana runes on, basically any champ, is pretty bad. Health runes are [i]okay[/i], but there are honestly better options. Armor and MR runes come to mind straight away. Oh yea, and starting with a [[ruby crystal]] is dumb on principle.[/quote]

[quote=Naroji]I've not been active consistently for that long, which is why I don't remember how long ago I made my account, but I remember it was in high-school, placing it a few years in the past. From then, I've been playing on and off for the entire time, mostly when someone says "hey, have you ever played League of Legends" and I'd say "yeah, I have an account already, let's play!" then I'd spend 30 minutes downloading updates... >.> Basically, I'm trying to make it so that minions die quicker, which means I get my triumphant roar back quicker. Yeah, you're right, I should prolly change that to Ionian Boots of Lucidity. Any differences must have simply been in my head, which isn't too far-fetched. He was my first and favorite champion... What's your point? As far as not having anything to back it up, I agree, he doesn't do much damage, he mainly heals and turret dives, those have always been my favorite things about him... Kinda why I liked Singed (he's a pretty good turret-diver too) but unlike singed, he has two abilities designed to keep his enemies in proper placement and one ability that heals his allies during fights. Early on, Alistar has some pretty good starting AD, which means that, if he is doing quick hits more often, with the help of another, they can take out an enemy champ pretty quick (which I've done on a few occasions), which not only gets a few extra coins for my ally, but it makes it easier to bust up their bot dynamic, leaving one (or both) of them underleveled, which allows us to more easily mop them up. The mana runes were simply because I felt Ali needed more Mana in order to sustain for very long in the lane. The health runes, well, basically, it boils down not to experience, but to a friend's experience. He made his account a few weeks before I did and was kicking major ass (compared to me and most people we played, that is) and he's been playing consistently this whole time. So, I took him at his word when he told me that, for you money, it is better to go Health, because going with resists just means you will be paying more money in order to build as much sustainability. It makes sense, as with Armor and MR, you have to build for two different contingencies, rather than the all-around Health. and as for the Ruby Crystal, that, again, is part of the whole, more sustainability gimmick, as I often found that, without a boost to health, the quicker or more "poisonous" champions were able to whittle me down to zero in no-time flat. EDIT: And as a follow up, about the Clarity, it is great because it gives every ally near me mana too, making, again, for more team sustainability.[/quote]

[quote=Lugignaf]This is the last post I'm going to make on this as I really don't think you're listening to me. A: Doesn't matter if you can get faster hits on them if you can't hit them. You're generally going to be against ranged champions bot lane. As a melee, that's an issue. B: My point is, it should've been almost impossible to not see another Ali because of his ease of access. C: If enemies are whittling you down, that what you have a heal for as well as health potions. Which, if you start boots, or with some wards as a good support should, you can buy some. Boots+3 potions gives more HP, and maneuverability, than just starting with a ruby crystal. 300 HP vs 180. D: [b]Philosopher's stone for mana[/b] Cannot stress this enough, oh my god.[/quote]

[quote=Naroji]I am listening to you, I have conceded several points to you. However, you are not listening to me when I tell you of the methods I have used that have worked at least two dozen times consecutively... Sometimes, even a few times in the same match, if I'm patient. A: I start off in second brush near the enemy turret with ally hugging me. First enemy champ comes in, almost without fail, to find us waiting, but doesn't account for the possibility. They continue for a moment before they divert course, I use Pulverize, while he's in the air, we both get off a few shots, and as he tries to leave, as well as my ally's attack. It's very useful in messing people up early game as it makes them leave immediately after getting there, if not killing them. Otherwise, they probably used their five-minute-cooldown flash to get away, if they have it (most champions love to pair Flash and Ignite, so it's likely) making them easier to catch later on, as they will likely expect that again, leading them to hug top, where I can headbutt against the wall, stunning them for the duration of the headbutt, then pulverize as they try to run, giving ally champ a great shot for ability and BAM dead. B: There are a lot of cheap Champs (and several each week you can try out for free) in this game and not a lot of new players who get a free Ali want to sit around and take damage, which they are undoubtedly expected to do. When i first started playing, I did that. Then I decided to use an AP build I found (and tweaked) online, to everyone's chagrin. Being a tank is often boring for new players, and most experienced players don't use such low-level champs as Ali. That was the point I was trying to make. And, in the time I have played, I am sure I have seen less than a dozen Ali's, none in the last year. C: I have a heal, yes, but when you're expected to get Pulverize first, you don't have your heal, most often, until level 3, and some people level up their poison exclusively in that time. It gets very dangerous very quick, even at level 1, which results in me having to B. Having to B results in me not being as high level as others in bot. Not being as high level as others in bot (and thereby not having all my basic abilities) leads to more danger and a higher level gap, which leads to death. Which leads to feeding. Which leads to loss. D: Philosopher's stone is great... For mana regen. But I need mana regen... And mana. It doesn't help me to have a regen if all my abilities will take too long to regen to in a feasible time, such as Pulverize and Headbutt which are mana syphons. If I don't get more mana, I can only use each ability one or two times before I am out of mana. With Tear of the Goddess, I can quickly rank it up to gain more and more mana, getting over 200 in just a few minutes, if I play my cards right. It doesn't regen mana as quickly, but it doesn't have to, as I have quite a bit more mana. I don't think you can sell me on the Philosopher's stone for that point alone. EDIT: And as far as the potions go... I'm wary of anything that cannot build, as it seems to me like consumables are a waste of money for the utility, if I'm gonna turret hug until I get my full health back, I might as well just B. EDIT2: Also, you have helped me hammer out a few things that were pretty fucked up with my build, so I thank you for that, but it [i]is[/i] quite frustrating when you know a method works early game and convention gets in the way of new ideas...[/quote]