Armor Pen and Magic Pen vs. AD and AP Marks and...

[quote=Gruuk Zangalor]I know this has probably been up here a bunch of times but I'm wondering what the thoughts are on Pen vs. Damage Marks and Quints... what are the advantages and disadvantages of both and why should each be used?[/quote]

[quote=utopus]Look at your graphing resource by searz. No but seriously the graphs on that thing mathematically evaluate the usefulness of all runes / quints at all stages of the game. As a header, flat AD runes and quints should be used on ADCs, AD tops, and SOME junglers (like jarvan) Arpen runes and quins kinda suck right now. Usually mids have MPen runes and flat AP quints At the moment, most people use runes to give themselves an early game advantage, which is usually why you see flat AD and AP runes[/quote]

[quote=Luther3000][quote=utopus] Look at your graphing resource by searz. No but seriously the graphs on that thing mathematically evaluate the usefulness of all runes / quints at all stages of the game. [/quote] Those graphs are horribly out of date, they're from season one. [quote=utopus] As a header, flat AD runes and quints should be used on ADCs, AD tops, and SOME junglers (like jarvan) Arpen runes and quins kinda suck right now. [/quote] watno ArP is better now then it's ever been. ArP marks for life on ADC.[/quote]

[quote=DuffTime]You'll want to consider the synergy of the rune with the champion in question. I know that for some players this may be difficult to understand, many don't even know how the actual math of armor and armor pen work and interact. Long story short, you can't really go wrong anymore. I would suggest taking AD reds on bruisers with about 350+ total AD ratios (It's better if they have a combined 400-500 ad ratio), or even taking them if you want a strong level 1 and 2. In this way your levels 1-5 should be pretty strong compared to that of a player who takes arp reds. Transversely, you should probably study the base damages of the skills on the champions you intend to play, and check and see how good the base value is compared to the AD ratio. If the base values are very high naturally, then you might consider the armor pen as a superior alternative to accentuate the natural power found in the kit of your champion. Keep in mind that flat pen was made muuuch better, and now more champions than ever have access to it. It's okay to mix and match your ArP and AD and your Mpen and AP on almost any hero now. I'll use a couple extreme examples of champions who -no doubt about it- want ArP or Magic pen respectively. Fiddles Miss Fortunes Elise And here are a few examples of Champions who would prefer AD over ArP or even AP over stacking Mpen. Darius Lee Sin Cho Gath Udyr (Tiger) Zed (If you aren't sure why it's because you get 25% more AD for your purchases than any other hero, making AD super cost effective. Just a LW + mastery choices will do fine on zed) --- Hopefully this was beneficial. :][/quote]

[quote=Gruuk Zangalor][quote=DuffTime] You'll want to consider the synergy of the rune with the champion in question. I know that for some players this may be difficult to understand, many don't even know how the actual math of armor and armor pen work and interact. Long story short, you can't really go wrong anymore. I would suggest taking AD reds on bruisers with about 350+ total AD ratios (It's better if they have a combined 400-500 ad ratio), or even taking them if you want a strong level 1 and 2. In this way your levels 1-5 should be pretty strong compared to that of a player who takes arp reds. Transversely, you should probably study the base damages of the skills on the champions you intend to play, and check and see how good the base value is compared to the AD ratio. If the base values are very high naturally, then you might consider the armor pen as a superior alternative to accentuate the natural power found in the kit of your champion. Keep in mind that flat pen was made muuuch better, and now more champions than ever have access to it. It's okay to mix and match your ArP and AD and your Mpen and AP on almost any hero now. I'll use a couple extreme examples of champions who -no doubt about it- want ArP or Magic pen respectively. Fiddles Miss Fortunes Elise And here are a few examples of Champions who would prefer AD over ArP or even AP over stacking Mpen. Darius Lee Sin Cho Gath Udyr (Tiger) Zed (If you aren't sure why it's because you get 25% more AD for your purchases than any other hero, making AD super cost effective. Just a LW + mastery choices will do fine on zed) --- Hopefully this was beneficial. :] [/quote] Thanks Duff... love all your guides and as always you're very helpful![/quote]