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tehAsian wrote:
APCs naturally counter ADCs.
If they survive to 6 they'll probably repeatedly burst you 100-0, and steamroll over you mid game after they get a damage item or 2.
this is not true, theres nothing about APC's that specifically counter ADC's
the difference and why we have the meta the current way it is, is because ADC's scale off items and AP champions generally scale off levels. You put the AP champion in the mid solo lane because it can farm minions (minions come to mid faster than any other lane) plus they have access to jungle creeps, and they also can roam more effectively than ADC's.
In any case. Mid lane graves has some inherent problems but is also very strong. his base damage is good enough plus he has good survivability through his passive. His problems are low range (he's got 525), he doesn't scale particularly well, and doesn't have alot of mobility ( quick draw is decent but he's still susceptible to ganks). I think the main thing is the range
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DPS AP champions still tend to outdamage AD carries by a large margin throughout the laning phase (the likes of Cassiopeia and Swain). Mid Graves could work against champions with targeted spells.
Cassiopeia and Swain). Mid Graves could work against champions with targeted spells.
Satella wrote:
DPS AP champions still tend to outdamage AD carries by a large margin throughout the laning phase (the likes of
Cassiopeia and Swain). Mid Graves could work against champions with targeted spells.Ah yes, that's also true. DPS AP champs tend to have high base damages whereas most ADC's need good items before their DPS becomes notable. So they lose in that aspect too, usually.
Vapora Dark wrote:
APC's DO generally counter ADC's, because ADC's do damage over time whereas APC's do all their damage instantly, generally. Your average APC beats your average ADC, though of course there are exceptions.
I don't think you understand what a counter is. And by your logic burst mages would 'counter' dps mages (so someone like
Annie would be a strong pick against Cassiopeia but thats not the case).Vapora Dark wrote:
APC's DO generally counter ADC's, because ADC's do damage over time whereas APC's do all their damage instantly, generally. Your average APC beats your average ADC, though of course there are exceptions.
incorrect. In my previous post i mentioned that ADC's scale off items while APC's scale off levels (generally speaking, I know AP champions benefit from items too).
Your last statement is a pretty broad one with sweeping generalizations. You failed to clarify at what point, ADC's scale better into late game than virtually every APC, expceptions being someone like
Karthus or Cassiopeia. So if you wamt to clarify your statements because saying something like 'average ap beats average ad' doesn't really mean anything, aside from the fact that its probably factually wrong after ~30 minutes
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I mean in-lane, not late-game. Burst mages *do* counter dps mages in the sense that they can throw everything they have in the space of a second, then walk away from the other mage's DPS, but there's also other things to consider, such as Cass's range and ease of kiting making her beat Annie. CC that's able to lock someone down and force them to take the DPS is also another factor to be considered ( another factor Cass has which lets her beat a large number of burst mages ).
I didn't mean that any burst character will beat any DPS character 100% of the time, but it's a general rule of thumb. Burst damage is unloaded in an instant, whereas damage over time takes time, and there's not usually any reason to sit there and take the damage. You can just walk away usually. Burst damage > DPS, at least early-game. But other factors can sometimes determine the winner in a straight-forward fight.
Dunno if you quoted the same comment twice by mistake, but I'll answer what you said. ADC's scale off items while APC's scale off levels, because APC's gain more base damage per level then ADC's, generally. And early-game you gain levels at a much faster rate than you gain items. APC's, even aside from the fact that burst damage > DPS, have the advantage of getting more damage faster than ADC's.
I didn't mean that any burst character will beat any DPS character 100% of the time, but it's a general rule of thumb. Burst damage is unloaded in an instant, whereas damage over time takes time, and there's not usually any reason to sit there and take the damage. You can just walk away usually. Burst damage > DPS, at least early-game. But other factors can sometimes determine the winner in a straight-forward fight.
Quoted:
incorrect. In my previous post i mentioned that ADC's scale off items while APC's scale off levels (generally speaking, I know AP champions benefit from items too).
Dunno if you quoted the same comment twice by mistake, but I'll answer what you said. ADC's scale off items while APC's scale off levels, because APC's gain more base damage per level then ADC's, generally. And early-game you gain levels at a much faster rate than you gain items. APC's, even aside from the fact that burst damage > DPS, have the advantage of getting more damage faster than ADC's.
Vapora Dark wrote:
Dunno if you quoted the same comment twice by mistake, but I'll answer what you said. ADC's scale off items while APC's scale off levels, because APC's gain more base damage per level then ADC's, generally. And early-game you gain levels at a much faster rate than you gain items. APC's, even aside from the fact that burst damage > DPS, have the advantage of getting more damage faster than ADC's.
you are literally saying what i said, like almost directly what I said. thanks for plagiarizing though
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Mooninites wrote:
you are literally saying what i said, like almost directly what I said. thanks for plagiarizing though
So you agree APC's generally counters ADC's in-lane then?
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Would it be better to build standard adc, build more assasiny, or build bruiser?