IShouldGetALife wrote:
well that's stupid, unless they pull a knife or gun on you shooting them is unreasonable.
Correct me if i'm wrong as I haven't heard anything about this in like a year, but didn't Zimmerman call the police and continue following Martin despite being told not to? It makes it seem like he was intent on something happening, maybe not killing him, but some kind of altercation.
I took 30 min of my time to read the details about this case, and something intrigued me:
(Source from NYTimes, huffington post, cnn and wikipedia)
Zimmermann has been accused of "racially profiling" (it means that Zimmermann assumed that Martin is suspicious and up to something based on the fact that Martin was black) because of a false report edit by NBC. Zimmermann was declared not motivated by racism after it was proven that he participated in 2010 in a protest in favor of a black homeless man being abused by a police officer. Zimmermann is also hispanic and has been raised in a multiracial family.
Now that it's clear that racism was not a factor that led to the shooting, all is left is:
-Self defense assuming that Martin attacked him first.
-Intuition that Martin was a criminal because of the hoodie he was wearing, the impression he gave, and the fact that he did not belong to the gated community Zimmermann is responsible of.(Quoting Zimmermann: "****ing punks, these *******s always get away.")
Zimmermann was charged of a 2nd degree murder so he is facing 25 years to life in prison.
If you ask me, I'd say Martin was irritated by the fact that Zimmermann was following him, simply because I'm sure he realized that Zimmermann saw him as someone suspicious, which makes him understand the reason he's being followed. Martin faced Zimmermann and rudely asked him: "What are you following me for?" Of course, taking into account the prejudice Zimmermann had on martin, the discussion didn't end well.
Now what matters is the following: Did Martin attack Zimmermann first because he felt provoked and irritated after their discussion? Or did Zimmermann threaten him first (maybe with the gun) and forced Martin to act and attack in defense?
If Martin assaulted Zimmermann first, Zimmermann may play the self-defense card. If Zimmermann threatened/assaulted Martin first under prejudice, then he can't play the self defense card, and he will have to face between 25 years to life in prison.
My 2 cents.
(Source from NYTimes, huffington post, cnn and wikipedia)
Zimmermann has been accused of "racially profiling" (it means that Zimmermann assumed that Martin is suspicious and up to something based on the fact that Martin was black) because of a false report edit by NBC. Zimmermann was declared not motivated by racism after it was proven that he participated in 2010 in a protest in favor of a black homeless man being abused by a police officer. Zimmermann is also hispanic and has been raised in a multiracial family.
Now that it's clear that racism was not a factor that led to the shooting, all is left is:
-Self defense assuming that Martin attacked him first.
-Intuition that Martin was a criminal because of the hoodie he was wearing, the impression he gave, and the fact that he did not belong to the gated community Zimmermann is responsible of.(Quoting Zimmermann: "****ing punks, these *******s always get away.")
Zimmermann was charged of a 2nd degree murder so he is facing 25 years to life in prison.
If you ask me, I'd say Martin was irritated by the fact that Zimmermann was following him, simply because I'm sure he realized that Zimmermann saw him as someone suspicious, which makes him understand the reason he's being followed. Martin faced Zimmermann and rudely asked him: "What are you following me for?" Of course, taking into account the prejudice Zimmermann had on martin, the discussion didn't end well.
Now what matters is the following: Did Martin attack Zimmermann first because he felt provoked and irritated after their discussion? Or did Zimmermann threaten him first (maybe with the gun) and forced Martin to act and attack in defense?
If Martin assaulted Zimmermann first, Zimmermann may play the self-defense card. If Zimmermann threatened/assaulted Martin first under prejudice, then he can't play the self defense card, and he will have to face between 25 years to life in prison.
My 2 cents.
caucheka wrote:
theres hardly any evidence to the case, and what little there is doesn't seem to help much.
so i say let the guy go because he hasn't been proven guilty.
furthermore i love how defensive moon gets.
1st ****tarded post of the thread!
There is substantial evidence that came out immedaitely after the incident. Pictures of zimm's injuries surfaced, and the 911 call is extremely important to the case. I believe they are bringing in voice experts to determine who was screaming, zimm or tray.
Personally, I think that this trial will not be fair either way because of the atom bomb of attention the media dropped on this case. I also think that in this case, zimm may have gotten a bit overzealous, but if the events happened like zimm said, I think this could be chalked up to just a misunderstanding. If tray had known zimm was a neighborhood watch, he wouldn't have run (acted suspicious) or fought with him. He would have identified himself as a resident and that was that. Give him manslaughter, 2-8, and lets just be done with it. He didn't kill this kid in cold blood, clearly there was a scuffle that zimmerman came out on the losing side of.
"Zimmermann has been accused of "racially profiling" (it means that Zimmermann assumed that Martin is suspicious and up to something based on the fact that Martin was black) because of a false report edit by NBC. Zimmermann was declared not motivated by racism after it was proven that he participated in 2010 in a protest in favor of a black homeless man being abused by a police officer. Zimmermann is also hispanic and has been raised in a multiracial family."
NBC edited the 911 call to make it sound like he was a racist, and the AP photoshopped his picture to make him appear caucasian when he is darker than your avg white person, and he's clearly mixed. Try to find the story about the media editing the call.
BOW DOWNBOW DOWN
BOW DOWN
I read some bits here and there and I skipped through the autopsy report, not much more. So if what I say is nonsense then I already give my apologies in advance. I don't claim to be knowledgeable about the (American) law and about the case.
Zimmerman neglected the orders to not follow Martin, if I read correctly he was supposedly driving a car, which means he could have easily prevent a struggle to happen in the first place, if he did drive a car that is.
I couldn't quickly find the state of Zimmerman, but other than the shot wound there was but a small abrasion on the left fourth finger found on Martin's body. Doesn't look to me like Zimmerman tried to defend himself in a different way than shooting. Or is it normal to just pull a gun as soon as you get a rough with someone? They were in a gated community so there were people enough around, Martin was unarmed if I read correctly.
If I just read right he did hit his heart from intermediate range, somewhere else I read about 1-18 inches. I'm not a law-type, but if I had to defend myself against an unarmed boy(he was, right?) I wouldn't shoot straight through the heart. On that close range it should've been easy enough to shoot a little lower I think. Not that I'd pull or carry a bloody gun in the first place.
I don't believe this changes a thing for the law of self defense, but ethically seen I think Zimmerman is guilty. He followed Martin, to me that looks like provocation, but I don't know if your "you can carry a gun and shoot anybody you want to as long as it is in self defense" laws change if the attacker was provoked.
In my eyes, if Zimmerman didn't do a thing and just stayed in his nice house in his nice gated community, nothing would've happened.
Zimmerman neglected the orders to not follow Martin, if I read correctly he was supposedly driving a car, which means he could have easily prevent a struggle to happen in the first place, if he did drive a car that is.
I couldn't quickly find the state of Zimmerman, but other than the shot wound there was but a small abrasion on the left fourth finger found on Martin's body. Doesn't look to me like Zimmerman tried to defend himself in a different way than shooting. Or is it normal to just pull a gun as soon as you get a rough with someone? They were in a gated community so there were people enough around, Martin was unarmed if I read correctly.
If I just read right he did hit his heart from intermediate range, somewhere else I read about 1-18 inches. I'm not a law-type, but if I had to defend myself against an unarmed boy(he was, right?) I wouldn't shoot straight through the heart. On that close range it should've been easy enough to shoot a little lower I think. Not that I'd pull or carry a bloody gun in the first place.
I don't believe this changes a thing for the law of self defense, but ethically seen I think Zimmerman is guilty. He followed Martin, to me that looks like provocation, but I don't know if your "you can carry a gun and shoot anybody you want to as long as it is in self defense" laws change if the attacker was provoked.
In my eyes, if Zimmerman didn't do a thing and just stayed in his nice house in his nice gated community, nothing would've happened.
********'s a pretty good fertilizer
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furthermore i love how defensive moon gets.
not defensive, just dont want cuddowls type posts, speaking of which
No thirty year old man would be senseless enough as to kill a seventeen year old and call it off as "self defense."
the idea of a disclaimer is that you actually read it