Rod of Ages in my oppinion is useless on swain.

thanks for good guide :D

thanks for good guide :D

thanks for good guide :D

Swain is 500 range. The amount of safe auto harass you can do is severely limited, unlike with say, Annie or Orianna. However, hybrid pen would increase your damage quite significantly if you land W and proceed to auto them while snared/Q tethered.

Hmm. That is a unique strategy. Torment does indeed increase the auto attack damage you deal by a percentage amount and Armor Pen would certainly increase your AA harass at early levels. It would appear to be a decision dependent on sacrificing mid and late game damage for a little bit of early game lane pressure. Anytime Swain would be allowed to AA harass an enemy champions, he would also be able to apply Torment and Decrepify though. From the quick math I did just out of curiosity, I believe the extra Magic Pen you get from running the standard page would increase your damage while harassing in lane more so than the Armor Pen. Of course the number of auto attacks you can get out can alter the formula to determine this as well as how much Armor / MR the enemy champion has. I've noticed a few players doing this on Mid Laners but I'm not personally inclined to specifically run them on Swain due to his short CDs on abilities, relatively short AA range, and the fact that he generally has to aim for the enemy front line in team fights (significantly increasing the value of Magic Pen). I wouldn't bash someone if I saw them run the Hybrid Runes but I also believe most any Swain guide that was uploaded to display Hybrid Runes on this site would probably get heavily down-voted and receive harsh feedback. The community on here isn't always open to off the wall strategies.

Thanks for the vote and your feedback though! It got me thinking about what Mid Laners I would run the Hybrid Pen runes on and got me brainstorming.

I like the thought that was put into all guide,(the multiple builds and such.) I might suggest trying hybrid pen runes. I find them very useful when trying to bully champs during the laning phase. When you have torment on them and any armor pen you can really any auto-attacking trades early.

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Well again, IDK what you actually said because your comment was edited by a moderator. I would gladly address your concerns but seeing as you apparently had nothing to say but vulgar words I wouldn't know what your actual problem with the guide is.

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Thanks for the feedback! Yeah I play around with Masteries on Swain a lot (each of the build paths has a different Mastery setup). If I were to move the points from Havoc into the Utility tree they'd probably just go in the bonus Mana per level of Expanded Mind . Wouldn't really be "deeper" just more invested. I do have a page where I show going 9/0/21 though which can be really strong. I like Havoc because of it's synergy with Torment and Deathfire Grasp. Damage amplification = OP. Havoc helps you to last hit and abuse your base damages. My personal preference leans towards keeping it but I definitely agree that Swain can benefit from various investments in all 3 trees.