Thanks for the comments, Danny. Much appreciated!

I have actually seen Talismans built on Pantheons, and even though it does work for many of the reasons you say, it is quite the troll buy and definitely requires you to be ahead to validate the purchase.

I say this because there are two ways to build Pantheon: Assassin and Bruiser. If you are building him assassin, you always want enough damage to 1-shot a squishy, so building talisman can delay you in getting that amount of damage. And if you are building bruiser, you need an item that either contributes damage or tankiness. Talisman does neither.

If you're building Talisman on Pantheon as a serious item, I'm guessing it's probably because you either have trouble landing ults and need the active to catch up to opponents or because you have trouble with teamfight positioning and need the active to kite back. If that's the case, I would just work on those particular skills because Pantheon would benefit much more from a damage/tankiness item than Talisman.

@Xylarboden , I really like how you've written in your guide. It's very solid and very well-thought out. I really appreciate the images of "What Pantheon should do" image section, so you can get the most out of a team fight.

ONE THING/QUESTION I have you you though: What is your opinion of Talisman of Ascention on Pantheon? I build it as a Third Item on Pantheon
(order build being: Ravenous hydra, Merc Treads, Talisman of Ascention, Last Whisperer, Maw of Malmortius, Guardian Angel)

While only my opinion, it seems to solve many of Pantheon's internal problems: from internal escape, to sustain mana and health, to pantheon aggression with both the cs and speed boost, and an alternative escape. Keep up the good word man. :)
-Danny

Indeed, the triple block is absolutely possible. Thank you for reminding me, I had forgotten it was much easier since they re-made his "W". Apparently they are looking to nerf his ult tho... not looking forward to that.

I surprised such accomplished pantheon player didn't said about the trick i named "triple blocking". As you know pantheon needs 4 stacks to set his passive ready, spells and AA raises this counter as well. But W turns passive on WITHOUT set passive counter to zero, so there is a trick: simple strike minions 3 times, then use your W ability on it. Wait for W cooldown. For this moment you are PREPARED. Fearlessly engage your AD opponent to all-in, and watch closely for his strikes. As first one is landed- USE YOUR W IMMEDIATELY without autoattacking or spear hurling, it will set your aegis up again, and those lovely 3 of 4 stacks will be fine. as he strike you second time- just attack him or hurl a spear to set your aegis up once again. This might be greatly useful on low lvls against such tough AD guys like tryndamere, jax, fiora or even nasus. This helps top-laned panth to pick safely fb while your opponent is 100% sure he is going to get the kill.

One of the best guides i have ever read! (and i read a lot)
There are details for everything, from items over matchups to tons of tips for his skills. Really well done !

really good build thanks!

Starki113r,

You're missing my point. I said Pantheon's damage falls off late game and that he is outscaled by other late game champions, not that he has poor scaling. The ratios are ridiculous, but his damage stops scaling at about level 12, which is when Spear Shot and Heartseeker Strike are maxed. Also, leveling his ultimate doesn't offer any damage unless it is landed accurately, which is usually not the case. At this point, his damage can only increase through items. With opposing bruisers and tanks stacking armor late game, it becomes more difficult for Pantheon to deal relevant damage to anyone besides carries. So, his scaling is an issue in that leveling his abilities after level 12 offers no increase in damage.

Compare this to a champion like Ryze, whose damage scales strongly into late game, both from continuing to level his abilities as well as from increasing his AP and mana base with items. Ryze's can deal relevant damage late game better than Pantheon can.

Or if you want to compare him to an AD caster, Zed is Pantheon on steroids. Each level of his abilities increases his damage output. It's just not the same with Pantheon.

That's why there is pressure for Pantheon players to get ahead early and to end the game early.

I also have to disagree with you about some of your other points. His passive can be VERY crucial late game. If Pantheon needs to go one on one with an ADC, his passive can stop 850 damage crits. Get a double block and that's 1700 damage mitigated. That's life saving and probably buys him enough time to kill the ADC.

Also, his teamfighting is perfectly fine in my opinion. A well-coordinated ultimate with his teammates can cause confusion and focus issues among the enemy team. It doesn't necessarily have to land accurately on the entire team, but there does have to be immediate follow-up from your teammates so that you don't land alone among 5 enemy champions.

I'm sorry about this (the build is great, the guide itself is above average) but something you said in it really irked me.

The reason Pantheon falls off late game is not because he has a lesser damage base. His Q and E scale insanely well with AD. His Q has a standard 140% bonus AD ratio, with a 210% bonus AD ratio on targets under 15% health, which is crazy in both cases considering how spammable it is, and his E scales from 60% bonus D per spear hit all the way up to a max 360% bonus AD dealt to enemy Champions. His scaling isn't the issue.

The issue is that A) He has no real sustain, because AD Casters lack an AD Spell vamp item, B) He has no escape save for wasting his ultimate to do it, C) His Passive is relatively worthless late game, and D) His teamfighting is fairly lackluster unless he can get a damn good and very accurate ultimate in on the entire enemy team. He dominates the early and mid game, and if he can get fed enough, the enemy team won't get a chance to take advantage of his poor late game; they'll have been stomped so hard it'll never come into play.

Please, don't say he has poor scaling. Please don't.

Thanks. Yes, I forgot to update the weak wave clear statement to weak wave clear early. In the beginning stages of the game, it can be hard for Pantheon to push a wave out which can result in some timing issues with basing and such. But of course, after he gets some items, wave clearing is no problem for him.

Hey great guide! I main Mantheon mid a lot but I do have a few pointers. Personally I think going 21-9-0 is far better than 21-0-9. You mentioned he has weak wave clearing but I refuse to believe that. Rush the BT after the Brutalizer and you will have no problem clearing minion waves with your heart seeker strike.

I dropped a upvote. I haven't really tried Pantheon mid, so I decided to try this build.
OK, so I did quite good for not playing him for so long. I pretty much rolled over enemy Orianna early game, even tough I didn't get any blues or counter-ganks from premade jungler, but it worked out.

I was facing Orianna so the all-in damage early game worked out quite well, but mid game I struggled following this item-build. I feel like getting magic resist earlier is important. Brutalizer rush is really good, but after it I would mention hexdrinker or something against poky lane. It's true that you will win trade, but to get to that range against some ap mids..

You could cover lane match-ups more and I'd consider taking magic resist earlier, like you have Elise at counters. Buying hexdrinker really good against her. You do enough damage already. with the early items. Frozen Mallet and Sunfire Aegis could be situationals imo.

Also, you're core build order and 6 item build doesn't match :P You have changed position of Black Cleaver and Last whisper.

BTW: I didn't find myself running out of mana by using the abilities with reason. I didn't get a single blue during the game and I did great against enemy mid laner with the blue. I think 21/9 could be a better option than 21/0/9 (You have it explained tough, so its cool)

Didn't like the banners either :( The signatures were fine, but the banners I didn't, but this is just a taste issue. I found them quite confusing and messing up my rading.


Above sounds harsh, but they're all again minor things and have no much effect imo. I really loved your abilities section, one of the best I've seen in long time! Really great guide, deserves the rating it has. I enjoyed the guide and I will certainly play panhteon mid more often than top I think. Good job and good luck with the guide ^^

Well deserved